IDS as a "legacy" system...

ID, Yes that's very likely. IDS has been around long enough to earn that title. That doesn't mean that there aren't companies doing some net new work on IDS. Its very possible that they already have the staff to do this work. Also as noted by Paul, there are people taking "non-ibm" training courses to learn IDS. It could show that companies are training younger (cheaper) labor as full time replacements for the aging work force. But as to "net new" development... you'll see that the buy vs sell mentality makes sense for the SMB market because of the cost of developing a solution. So when a company buys a new accounting package/payroll package/ benefits package.... since IDS isn't on the shortlist of promoted DBs, you'll see lost opportunities. When was the last time an SAP package was sold on IDS? Lawson? BAAN? PeopleSoft? (Excluding "upgrades"). I mean isn't Tellabs switching to DB2 for their SAP environment? (That was the informix instansce...) Right now I'm seeing a lot of C# and .net garbage out there.

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > ID, > > Yes that's very likely. IDS has been around long enough to earn that > title. > > That doesn't mean that there aren't companies doing some net new work > on IDS. Its very possible that they already have the staff to do this > work. > I like optimism. But it only exists in peoples' heads. > Also as noted by Paul, there are people taking "non-ibm" training > courses to learn IDS. It could show that companies are training > younger (cheaper) labor as full time replacements for the aging work > force. > I can't imagine anyone taking training to learn IDS. Why??? > But as to "net new" development... you'll see that the buy vs sell > mentality makes sense for the SMB market because of the cost of > developing a solution. > Precisely why Informix IDS should be a no-cost download without crippled features. There is an incubation cycle that will never occur if developers and DBAs are constantly told, "Sorry, you didn't cough up the cash up front, you can't play". Yes, IIUG gives a download of a crippled version, this is not THE version that will go into production, nor is it directly from IBM. Until IBM creates a real developer environment with real incentives from IBM this is all academic. > So when a company buys a new accounting package/payroll package/ > benefits package.... since IDS isn't on the shortlist of promoted DBs, > you'll see lost opportunities. When was the last time an SAP package > was sold on IDS? > Lawson? BAAN? PeopleSoft? (Excluding "upgrades"). > Would YOU develop an application that was specific to Informix? This is something I'm sure any good app developer is going to avoid at all costs, right?. In fact, you would expect database portability in the developer of today. But that is not the reality. There are a lot of people developing for MySQL without any thought of using their app on another platform, same for Oracle. These app builders are living in healthy app-building biospheres with little worry that their database is going to be an issue for the market they support. Their market has opportunities that reach beyond their current application. They know they can use the skills they learned on one sole-source-db app and apply it to the next. This is why IBM needs to get developers not only excited about Informix, they need to get the developer to download real production-quality software at no cost, and become a part of a real developer program with live content. There need to be real people connected to the program, not a faceless website with nothing but template nonsense. This means having an Informix Magazine ( like Oracle Magazine ) and advertising that helps support the developers' decision to spend the time to learn Informix. It means a living breathing developer program with incentives to stay connected to the program. Where are the pens pencils t-shirts coffee-cups? A marketing program has all these things and more! > I mean isn't Tellabs switching to DB2 for their SAP environment? (That > was the informix instansce...) > > Right now I'm seeing a lot of C# and .net garbage out there. Language skills being what they are, it's not the only skill to have. A developer of today has to be able to not only develop for your product, they also have to learn developer tools and integrate their app with other products. Where are the developer blogs for Informix that show how companies are using Informix for different applications and integration? You know that if _I_ were running the program there would be all of the above and more. -ID-

InDeepSHIT says... >I can't imagine anyone taking training to learn IDS. Why??? why is it surprising? If you can post in c.d.i despite not working with Informix products for eons, why can't anyone take training to learn IDS. if he/she is a crackpot, so are you. >You know that if _I_ were running the program there would be all of the >above and more. You won't be running Informix because you don't have a thick accent. Remember the predecessor of current IBM man. She was a native american like you. She was the one to screw informix royally by sending one clear message to all customers in 2001-2002 "we are deprecating informix soon". Even today some major customers of Informix view it with suspicion because of the work of that 'native american' even though she herself got booted out. I think anyone, and that included IBM employees, would prefer this thick accented person to that 'native american' when it comes to nurturing informix. BTW do you know your phone number, email address and even photo is available in google.

>She was a native american like you. She >was the one to screw informix royally by sending one clear message >to all customers in 2001-2002 "we are deprecating informix soon". >Even today some major customers of Informix view it with suspicion >because of the work of that 'native american' even though she herself >got booted out. and of course Phil White, the 'native american' with right accent. Who says one man demolition squad is possible only in movies. He was one man to single handily destroy informix due to his ego.

> From: indeep@indeep.com > Subject: Re: IDS as a "legacy" system... > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:08:03 -0700 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > > > That doesn't mean that there aren't companies doing some net new work > > on IDS. Its very possible that they already have the staff to do this > > work. > > > > I like optimism. But it only exists in peoples' heads. It isn't so much optimism. Despite Janet's attemtps to kill the product slowly and via a thousand cuts... and Ambush's view on how to run the pillar, the product is good enough that its hard to kill. That's the big point. In spite of the unintentional/intentional management fsck ups, the software lives on. Companies that have legacy IDS systems, will continue to develop and build on IDS. Provided that they have IDS knowledgeable staff. > > > Also as noted by Paul, there are people taking "non-ibm" training > > courses to learn IDS. It could show that companies are training > > younger (cheaper) labor as full time replacements for the aging work > > force. > > > > I can't imagine anyone taking training to learn IDS. Why??? > Because they're the new cheap labor. The offshore/onshore option doesn't always work. But there's still a lot of people coming out of schools looking for a job and sometimes the legacy work pays better out of the gate. But still cheaper than us old geezers. > > But as to "net new" development... you'll see that the buy vs sell > > mentality makes sense for the SMB market because of the cost of > > developing a solution. > > > Precisely why Informix IDS should be a no-cost download without crippled > features. There is an incubation cycle that will never occur if > developers and DBAs are constantly told, "Sorry, you didn't cough up the > cash up front, you can't play". Yes, IIUG gives a download of a > crippled version, this is not THE version that will go into production, > nor is it directly from IBM. Until IBM creates a real developer > environment with real incentives from IBM this is all academic. > This isn't an easy nut to shell. You have the Express edition which doesn't have all the bells and whistles and is price competitive with MySQL and others (thanks to OTC's work.) However, to your point, its not the same as Enterprise Edition which has the robust features DBAs want. The big problem is that even with a low cost of picking up a copy for a small team to do a POC, they still have to go to their procurement team and get the license... Looking at "free" alternatives, you download, build your POC for "free" (not including your time and maybe the re-allocation of hardware), and its done under the radar of the IT police. Once its ready to go and upper management sees what they like, it goes in to production. (Doing an end-run around IT) Companies could join and spend the 2K (with training), but again. That 2K comes from procurement and hits the it budget. Still not under the radar. I agree that I'd like to see a registered licencensed developer version, that can't be (licensed) for production. Something that Oracle has been doing for years. I think its important that IBM tries to get in to the head of their customers, and potential customers. But somehow that seems to be beyond them. No offense, but you need to have Adult ADD and the ability to multi-task/multi-track your brain. IBM doesn't need to create the "real developers" program. It would be nice, but there's some logistics and effort (involving legal) that makes it very difficult. Not to mention that the bulk of the revenues come from sources which will never see or use this program. There are other ways that IBM could better spend time and money. Creating the story that will get some of the targeted customer's attention. But it will still take a concerted effort and a lot of support from upper management to do this. ID you know me and you know that I have a very good idea of how to create a winning solution that will create leads and sales that are and order of magnitude over the initial costs. > > So when a company buys a new accounting package/payroll package/ > > benefits package.... since IDS isn't on the shortlist of promoted DBs, > > you'll see lost opportunities. When was the last time an SAP package > > was sold on IDS? > > Lawson? BAAN? PeopleSoft? (Excluding "upgrades"). > > > > Would YOU develop an application that was specific to Informix? > Actually, yes. I have two or three potential and very different applications that would fit nicely in to a system running IDS Enterprise Edition. 2 of the three can only run on IDS, the third could run on something like Postgress which would be free. > This is something I'm sure any good app developer is going to avoid at > all costs, right?. In fact, you would expect database portability in > the developer of today. But that is not the reality. > Yes and no. It depends. The goal of most if not all net new project is to be database independent. That you want to consider your database to be a persistence of the objects and nothing more. This allows you to market your product to customers who are only familiar with only one environment. However, if there is a certain compelling feature that is only found in one database, that has enough value / justification to incorporating it in to your solution, and it will attract more customers, then it makes sense to utilize the feature. > There are a lot of people developing for MySQL without any thought of > using their app on another platform, same for Oracle. These app > builders are living in healthy app-building biospheres with little worry > that their database is going to be an issue for the market they support. > Their market has opportunities that reach beyond their current > application. They know they can use the skills they learned on one > sole-source-db app and apply it to the next. This is why IBM needs to > get developers not only excited about Informix, they need to get the > developer to download real production-quality software at no cost, and > become a part of a real developer program with live content. There need > to be real people connected to the program, not a faceless website with > nothing but template nonsense. This means having an Informix Magazine ( > like Oracle Magazine ) and advertising that helps support the > developers' decision to spend the time to learn Informix. It means a > living breathing developer program with incentives to stay connected to > the program. Where are the pens pencils t-shirts coffee-cups? A > marketing program has all these things and more! > > I would suggest you look at their business models and you'll see a lot of risk and a lot of these developers failing. Your argument is understood and Mark's comments, even if you discount that he's an oracle employee, the cost to entry for this target is going to be very expensive. And the results will not come close to meeting expectations. This is why I'm suggesting a different way to attacking the problem with one that will achieve some if not most of the effect. And no, its not a single step silver bullet solution. Its a combination of solutions. That lead to the overall result. And yes, You really do need to have ADD to keep track of all the moving parts and make

> From: guesswho@where.com > Subject: Re: IDS as a "legacy" system... > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:58:18 -0700 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > and of course Phil White, the 'native american' with right accent. > Who says one man demolition squad is possible only in movies. He > was one man to single handily destroy informix due to his ego. > And did you know Phil White? Probably not. What you and a lot of people forget, Phil took the reigns from Sippl and did some very good things. What tripped him up was his acquisition of Illustra. He under estimated the cost and involvement in bringing that technology in to IDS. He did the right thing with the acquisition, but paniced and cooked the books. At least he got the market. Dexmier, Finocchio and even Peter G. did not. Ambush? I doubt that he cares about anything beyond making money and getting his ticket punched. (Military term) He's not invested emotionally to the products like Janet. _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

In article <mailman.1702.1220893178.20610.informix-list@iiug.org>, Ian Michael Gumby says... >And did you know Phil White? >Probably not. > >What you and a lot of people forget=2C Phil took the reigns from Sippl and = >did some very good things. Someone defening a crook. well it takes one to know one. PW had a bloated ego and thought of himself as next larry ellison. He loved seeing himself talking in CNN Morning Show, or going to Larry's mansion to talk about 11 engineers from portland who were 'abducted' by larry's team in Jan/Feb 1997. It was his ego which wanted to show to wall street that informix is growing at 30% quarter to quarter even though to achieve that he had to cook books. A more pragmatic, level headed CEO would have ensured less spectacular growth from 1994-1996 and probably wouldn't have faced that black Monday (1-Apr-1997) when Informix was punished by Wall Street and probably never recovered from there. >What tripped him up was his acquisition of Illustra.=20 > >He under estimated the cost and involvement in bringing that technology in = >to IDS. He did the right thing with the acquisition=2C but paniced and cook= >ed the books. At least he got the market. Dexmier=2C Finocchio and even Pet= >er G. did not. > >Ambush? I doubt that he cares about anything beyond making money and gettin= >g his ticket punched. (Military term) >He's not invested emotionally to the products like Janet.

I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually using Informix. It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using Informix.

InDeep wrote: > I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually using Informix. > > It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using Informix. > > I'm sure Mark Townsend feels the same way. :o) -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

In article <kBhxk.8684$jk2.8075@fe66.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... > >I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually using >Informix. > >It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using Informix. It would be great if you could demonstrate that you have 100 cells in your brain. Fool, do you think IBM would have invested in Informix 11 version with so many new features if they have just 100 customers.

InDeep wrote: > I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually > using Informix. > > It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using > Informix. > ;) Is this to be funny or you just miss some zeros? And I obviously won't give you names or numbers, but just by using the Internet you can get 43 (just in one place). And the two most reference here are not on that list. And that list only includes well known companies. I could list more than that just local... Really... It's incredible the statements we see here... Follow Obnoxio's tip. Ask Mark. We probably has a list bigger than that in his target list ;) -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

On Sep 8, 12:24 pm, I like IBM <guess...@where.com> wrote: > In article <mailman.1702.1220893178.20610.informix-l...@iiug.org>, Ian Michael > Gumby says... > > >And did you know Phil White? > >Probably not. > > >What you and a lot of people forget=2C Phil took the reigns from Sippl and = > >did some very good things. > > Someone defening a crook. well it takes one to know one. Then you don't know Phil White. He was everybody's hero prior to '95. Looks like just another sock puppet.

On Sep 8, 5:23 pm, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: > I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually using Informix. > > It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using Informix. Send me an e-mail... ;-) As OTC says, Mark would like to see the same list. Yes, they do exist and I do mean customers, not end users of Siemens or Moto's products.

Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > It isn't so much optimism. Despite Janet's attemtps to kill the product > slowly and via a thousand cuts... and Ambush's view on how to run the > pillar, the product is good enough that its hard to kill. Informix 319 jobs Pick 308 jobs RPG 300 jobs Are you sure it is the quality of the product that makes it hard to kill? I might just be a stubborn DBA community that didn't take a hint and move to DB2. I keep waiting for you folks to find a newbie that actually has a question about the product. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually >> using Informix. >> >> It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using >> Informix. >> >> > > I'm sure Mark Townsend feels the same way. :o) You're right ... he probably would. But likely not for the reason you imagine. I doubt, if all of the regulars here, pooled all of their knowledge they could come up with 100 IDS customers that are running a code base less than three years old. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > > >> It isn't so much optimism. Despite Janet's attemtps to kill the product >> slowly and via a thousand cuts... and Ambush's view on how to run the >> pillar, the product is good enough that its hard to kill. >> > > Informix 319 jobs > Pick 308 jobs > RPG 300 jobs > > Are you sure it is the quality of the product that makes it hard to kill? > > I might just be a stubborn DBA community that didn't take a hint and > move to DB2. > > I keep waiting for you folks to find a newbie that actually has a > question about the product. > Oh, we do get them Daniel. Despite your paymaster's best efforts. I have to say, I admire the brass neck of a signed up Oracle shill who has the nerve to waffle on about academic impartiality. -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

DA Morgan wrote: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > >> InDeep wrote: >> >>> I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually >>> using Informix. >>> >>> It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using >>> Informix. >>> >>> >>> >> I'm sure Mark Townsend feels the same way. :o) >> > > You're right ... he probably would. But likely not for the reason you > imagine. > > I doubt, if all of the regulars here, pooled all of their knowledge > they could come up with 100 IDS customers that are running a code > base less than three years old. > Wrong again. -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

I Like IBM wrote: > In article <kBhxk.8684$jk2.8075@fe66.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... >> I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually using >> Informix. >> >> It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using Informix. > > It would be great if you could demonstrate that you have 100 cells in your > brain. > > Fool, do you think IBM would have invested in Informix 11 version with so > many new features if they have just 100 customers. > Ok so here goes, ready? What _can_ you do to get a full, production-ready, enterprise edition of IDS out there for developers and budding DBAs? When can you have this done? We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...<yawn> When is Informix Magazine going to press? Will there be an electronic edition like Oracle Magazine has? Where can I buy Informix coffee cups, pens, pencils, t-shirts, belt-buckles, cigar-cutters, leather airline ticket holders, notebooks, golf balls, golf tees? Please tell me where the banner ads and marketing materials are for Informix banner ads so that I can put them on my web sites. What periodicals and trade magazines will be used in the next few months for advertising the Informix brand? Why don't the IBM PartnerWorld emails ever have any Informix announcements? This needs to be fixed too, start putting Informix announcements in ahead of Tivoli, and the excessive amount of useless Lotus crap, nobody actually uses Lotus when Open Office will do. When will you start a developer "summer of code" or similar program for Informix? When are you hosting local user group parties with dancing women? ( Just kidding on this one but thought it would be good anyway 8o) When will we see more books from a _variety_ of authors on key topics regarding Informix? When will we see developer contests and promotions? -ID-

InDeep wrote: > announcements in ahead of Tivoli, and the excessive amount of useless > Lotus crap, nobody actually uses Lotus when Open Office will do. > I can see you're not reading these letters, because Lotus Symphony is just OpenOffice with blue lipstick on. :o) -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

InDeep wrote: > > What _can_ you do to get a full, production-ready, enterprise edition of > IDS out there for developers and budding DBAs? When can you have this > done? We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...<yawn> > And I still want to know what is wrong with the Developer Edition, which limits you ONLY on the number of users you can have? Come on, tell us why that isn't good enough? -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> announcements in ahead of Tivoli, and the excessive amount of useless >> Lotus crap, nobody actually uses Lotus when Open Office will do. >> > > I can see you're not reading these letters, because Lotus Symphony is > just OpenOffice with blue lipstick on. :o) > Yeah but OpenOffice is at least using modern fonts. Chryshakes, Lotus looks like it was created during the late 1800s, just old and ugly! *<8o)

The only mistake Phil made was booking deals which were not there (yet) and this happened all over the place. This caused restatements which caused a lot of misery.( afaik he did this @ wyse as well and got away with it..) The others tryed to fix it. Later Bastard Peter G. reversed the take over of Ardent and sold off the ruins left of informix. Superboer way fast = http://www.clipjes.nl/clip/nederlands/n/normaal_-_oerend_hard.html On 8 sep, 18:59, Ian Michael Gumby <im_gu...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > From: guess...@where.com > > Subject: Re: IDS as a "legacy" system... > > Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:58:18 -0700 > > To: informix-l...@iiug.org > > and of course Phil White, the 'native american' with right accent. > > Who says one man demolition squad is possible only in movies. He > > was one man to single handily destroy informix due to his ego. > > And did you know Phil White? > Probably not. > > What you and a lot of people forget, Phil took the reigns from Sippl and did some very good things. > What tripped him up was his acquisition of Illustra. > > He under estimated the cost and involvement in bringing that technology in to IDS. He did the right thing with the acquisition, but paniced and cooked the books. At least he got the market. Dexmier, Finocchio and even Peter G. did not. > > Ambush? I doubt that he cares about anything beyond making money and getting his ticket punched. (Military term) > He's not invested emotionally to the products like Janet. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog...

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> >> What _can_ you do to get a full, production-ready, enterprise edition of >> IDS out there for developers and budding DBAs? When can you have this >> done? We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...<yawn> >> > > And I still want to know what is wrong with the Developer Edition, which > limits you ONLY on the number of users you can have? Come on, tell us > why that isn't good enough? > Because the effort to re-install the right version negates the tipping point between actually deploying the thing in to production and saying fuck-it, let's get back to it later. Having it production-ready and usable means getting the licensing and support all the easier, no reinstall needed. I heard that replication was crippled too, as well as a couple of other things I can't remember. Anyway it's not the way to sell software. I would also think that with IBM already in "on-demand" mode for a few years now with hardware would be the same way with software. For example they were shipping hardware with additional CPUs disabled and turned on with a key. Imagine that they can do the same thing with software, only a little different, such as a key or marker in the installation that shows the product legal for development but illegal for production, and so on and so forth. Registration of the product can be done to track downloads and installations. ( Geez you would think you'd want to get it in to as many sites as possible ) Having the real deal also means being able to do a POC or ramp-up even easier, and with credible results. It also means DBAs can learn and test on their own. It's one of those things that if I have to explain it to you, then you obviously don't understand enough of the real world and how to embed software into and organization and a generation of developers. Also, speaking outside the one-dimensional space, everyone knows this is exactly how Microsoft built their base. Oracle too. Success requires no explanations, failure permits no alibis. Until I see Informix out there like Oracle I will hear only alibis. -ID-

Not anyone who wants to keep this list alive should take part in these fruitless discussions. It seems that some frustrated retired or unemployed snobs started to destroy it systematically. Any new or potential member will turn away with disapproval. -- Ist Ihr Browser Vista-kompatibel? Jetzt die neuesten Browser-Versionen downloaden: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/browser

InDeep wrote: > I would also think that with IBM already in "on-demand" mode for a few > years now with hardware would be the same way with software. For > example they were shipping hardware with additional CPUs disabled and > turned on with a key. Imagine that they can do the same thing with > software, only a little different, such as a key or marker in the > installation that shows the product legal for development but illegal > for production, and so on and so forth. But then you'd moan about that, too. -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Haw! There is overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The more pointless the topic the better it does in this newsgroup, it ain't going anywhere, don't worry. *<8o) coral80@gmx.de wrote: > Not anyone who wants to keep this list alive should take part in these fruitless discussions. It seems that some frustrated retired or unemployed snobs started to destroy it systematically. Any new or potential member will turn away with disapproval.

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> I would also think that with IBM already in "on-demand" mode for a few >> years now with hardware would be the same way with software. For >> example they were shipping hardware with additional CPUs disabled and >> turned on with a key. Imagine that they can do the same thing with >> software, only a little different, such as a key or marker in the >> installation that shows the product legal for development but illegal >> for production, and so on and so forth. > > But then you'd moan about that, too. > Well maybe. *<8o) But pigs would fly too.

coral80@gmx.de wrote: > Not anyone who wants to keep this list alive should take part in these fruitless discussions. It seems that some frustrated retired or unemployed snobs started to destroy it systematically. Any new or potential member will turn away with disapproval. The IIUG mailing list has some more interesting topics. And this is Usenet... It has been like this forever. I agree with you... And I avoid participating in these threads, but if you see some statements that are not true or even ridiculous it's difficult to avoid posting... Opinions are opinions but facts are facts. And facts should be straight... Regards. -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

DA Morgan wrote: > Ian Michael Gumby wrote: > >> It isn't so much optimism. Despite Janet's attemtps to kill the >> product slowly and via a thousand cuts... and Ambush's view on how to >> run the pillar, the product is good enough that its hard to kill. > > Informix 319 jobs > Pick 308 jobs > RPG 300 jobs > > Are you sure it is the quality of the product that makes it hard to kill? > > I might just be a stubborn DBA community that didn't take a hint and > move to DB2. > > I keep waiting for you folks to find a newbie that actually has a > question about the product. We do... usually not here. And we treat them right. Not as you use to do in c.d.o* We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install it you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... Regards. -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

In article <yqoxk.3948$CP.760@fe76.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... > >I Like IBM wrote: >> In article <kBhxk.8684$jk2.8075@fe66.usenetserver.com>, InDeep says... >>> I'd like to know if there are 100 ( or more ) IBM customers actually using >>> Informix. >>> >>>It would be great to see a list of 100 IBM customers that are using Informix. >> >> It would be great if you could demonstrate that you have 100 cells in your >> brain. >> >> Fool, do you think IBM would have invested in Informix 11 version with so >> many new features if they have just 100 customers. >> > >Ok so here goes, ready? Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of criteria. The question is why do you care.

I Like IBM ( is this Ravi again? ) wrote: > > Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your > argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers > of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of > criteria. > > The question is why do you care. > The question is why do YOU care. I'm guessing from your obvious irritation and poorly constructed sentences it's you RAVI. Nice try. 8o) If IBM has more than 100 Informix customers let's see the list. The good folks over at Oracle seem to have no problem parading their list of customers. Nice magazine too. I have people at work fighting over my Oracle coffee cup, and they really like my denim Oracle shirt. Nobody wanted the denim IBM shirt, not sure why. *<8o)

> From: domusonline@gmail.com> Subject: Re: IDS as a "legacy" system...> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 12:10:26 +0100> To: informix-list@iiug.org> > coral80@gmx.de wrote:> > Not anyone who wants to keep this list alive should take part in these fruitless discussions. It seems that some frustrated retired or unemployed snobs started to destroy it systematically. Any new or potential member will turn away with disapproval.> > The IIUG mailing list has some more interesting topics.> And this is Usenet... It has been like this forever.> I agree with you... And I avoid participating in these threads, but if you see > some statements that are not true or even ridiculous it's difficult to avoid > posting...> Opinions are opinions but facts are facts. And facts should be straight...> Regards.> Hmmm But you keep posting. Don't worry its human nature. Something Gumby found out long ago. ;-) The funny thing...some of what you think of as "facts" are nothing more than stories or partial truths. You don't know the half of it. BTW, you never did try and verify my numbers for the IT Specialists in the Central North Terriory. Oh sure. Things are getting done. But at a snails pace. I'll even give you another example. Who's the IT Specialist who covers Hyatt? And I still want to know who covers PeaPod here in the US. But hey! Why let those cold hard facts get in the way of your nice simple world. And I probably could think of 100 customers from the top of my head ... Isn't the AMA still running Informix? Or did they migrate because of Lawson and ATG not wanting to continue to support IDS? Who knows? Certainly not you Fernando. Maybe your pal Serge in Toronto/Markham. After all he's a band 10 lab rat with no directs. ;-) > -- > Fernando Nunes> Portugal> > http://informix-technology.blogspot.com>; My email works... but I don't check it frequently...> _______________________________________________> Informix-list mailing list> Informix-list@iiug.org> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

Dude! Do you really want the list? I could almost do it from memory... Do you want to count OEMs like Moto which ship the product as part of theirs but don't use it internally? Do you want just North American customers? (US and Canada) or would you consider US customers that have a global presence and its the global partner/subsidiary that runs IDS? Do you also want to include customers who have EXE but don't consider themselves an IDS development shop? Yeah I think I can pretty much give you the list, not relying on AAS to get those numbers. ;-) -G > From: indeep@indeep.com> Subject: Re: IDS as a "legacy" system...> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 08:04:11 -0700> To: informix-list@iiug.org> > I Like IBM ( is this Ravi again? ) wrote:> > > > Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your> > argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers> > of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of> > criteria.> > > > The question is why do you care.> > > > The question is why do YOU care. I'm guessing from your obvious> irritation and poorly constructed sentences it's you RAVI. Nice try.> > 8o)> > If IBM has more than 100 Informix customers let's see the list. The> good folks over at Oracle seem to have no problem parading their list> of customers. Nice magazine too. I have people at work fighting over> my Oracle coffee cup, and they really like my denim Oracle shirt. Nobody> wanted the denim IBM shirt, not sure why.> > *<8o)> > _______________________________________________> Informix-list mailing list> Informix-list@iiug.org> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list _________________________________________________________________ Want to do more with Windows Live? Learn “10 hidden secrets” from Jamie. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008

Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > InDeep wrote: >> >> What _can_ you do to get a full, production-ready, enterprise edition of >> IDS out there for developers and budding DBAs? When can you have this >> done? We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...<yawn> >> > > And I still want to know what is wrong with the Developer Edition, which > limits you ONLY on the number of users you can have? Come on, tell us > why that isn't good enough? Since you asked ... tell me where my students, non-IBM customers, can download a copy for free. Tell me that like the software available for free download from Microsoft and Oracle it is undamaged and fully functional. Tell that, like Oracle, it does not contain a ticking clock after which it expires. If I'm wrong ... post the link to the software and the license agreement. If I am correct demonstrate some integrity and acknowledge it. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Fernando Nunes wrote: > We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install it > you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... > Regards. As Mogens Norgaard told IBM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzV4LZnvHc -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

I Like IBM wrote: > Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your > argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers > of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of > criteria. Proven wrong? Where? When? I didn't see a list with 100 names. I didn't see a list with 10 names. I have yet to see a list with 5 names. Let's see there's Sears and Walmart and Cisco and ....? I wonder how another company handles the same issue? http://www.oracle.com/industries/index.html Select an industry. Click on the link on page right where it says "Customers." Then click on the "All customers" link. Click on the "View All Customers" link. No secrets ... no NDA ... no nonsense. Now what was that you proved? -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > I Like IBM wrote: > > >> Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your >> argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers >> of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of >> criteria. >> > > Proven wrong? Where? When? I didn't see a list with 100 names. I > didn't see a list with 10 names. I have yet to see a list with 5 names. > Let's see there's Sears and Walmart and Cisco and ....? > > I wonder how another company handles the same issue? > http://www.oracle.com/industries/index.html > > Select an industry. > Click on the link on page right where it says "Customers." Then > click on the "All customers" link. > Click on the "View All Customers" link. > I don't see any "customer" link, Daniel. Perhaps you get that link because you're an ACE Director? > No secrets ... no NDA ... no nonsense. > > Now what was that you proved? > Ipse dixit. -- Cheers, Obnoxio the Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com

Daniel... be careful here to get it right... I'm not sure Sears is still an Informix user or customer. I did get a req a couple of weeks ago for a MySQL DBA slot at Sears in Chicago. So your count of 3 Informix customers is now down to 2 max with one (1) maybe customer. Anyway... OTC you'll like this link even better: *<8o) http://www.oracle.com/customers/cust_list_atoz.html It should put to rest the argument that you shouldn't show off your customers because they might reveal their "competitive advantage". I heard that one a while back from Informix people and some IBM sycophants. ( Factoid: I have been suggesting for YEARS that IBM should be doing at the very least what Oracle does as well as Microsoft! ) But hey what do I know... -Deep- DA Morgan wrote: > I Like IBM wrote: > >> Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your >> argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers >> of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of >> criteria. > > Proven wrong? Where? When? I didn't see a list with 100 names. I > didn't see a list with 10 names. I have yet to see a list with 5 names. > Let's see there's Sears and Walmart and Cisco and ....? > > I wonder how another company handles the same issue? > http://www.oracle.com/industries/index.html > > Select an industry. > Click on the link on page right where it says "Customers." Then > click on the "All customers" link. > Click on the "View All Customers" link. > > No secrets ... no NDA ... no nonsense. > > Now what was that you proved?

DA Morgan wrote: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: >> InDeep wrote: >>> >>> What _can_ you do to get a full, production-ready, enterprise edition of >>> IDS out there for developers and budding DBAs? When can you have this >>> done? We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...<yawn> >>> >> >> And I still want to know what is wrong with the Developer Edition, >> which limits you ONLY on the number of users you can have? Come on, >> tell us why that isn't good enough? > > Since you asked ... tell me where my students, non-IBM customers, can > download a copy for free. Tell me that like the software available for > free download from Microsoft and Oracle it is undamaged and fully > functional. Tell that, like Oracle, it does not contain a ticking > clock after which it expires. > > If I'm wrong ... post the link to the software and the license > agreement. If I am correct demonstrate some integrity and acknowledge > it. http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/im/ids/dev.html?S_TACT=105AGX28&S_CMP=DLMAIN You're wrong... again... It's just like OTC wrote. Hope you and your students find it useful... Meanwhile you may want to show us some integrity...? Regards. -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

DA Morgan wrote: > I Like IBM wrote: > >> Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your >> argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers >> of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of >> criteria. > > Proven wrong? Where? When? I didn't see a list with 100 names. I > didn't see a list with 10 names. I have yet to see a list with 5 names. > Let's see there's Sears and Walmart and Cisco and ....? > > I wonder how another company handles the same issue? > http://www.oracle.com/industries/index.html > > Select an industry. > Click on the link on page right where it says "Customers." Then > click on the "All customers" link. > Click on the "View All Customers" link. > > No secrets ... no NDA ... no nonsense. > > Now what was that you proved? You could consider that IBM doesn't post list of it's customers... And if you want just 5, probably the success stories will cover that And if you look carefully, you'll find 43... You mentioned before IBM does things to earn money... Following your (ir)rational, we'd be accepting that all the IDS 11 and 11.50 investment would be covered by 3 customers! That's so ridiculous that can't even be funny... Regards -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

DA Morgan wrote: > Fernando Nunes wrote: > >> We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install it >> you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... >> Regards. > > As Mogens Norgaard told IBM: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzV4LZnvHc May I remind you that the topic is not installations? And please, please... take your ACE knowledge to the people that work with Oracle on the same customer as I do... They really need it... Unless making videos is easier than installing Oracle. Oh... as a side note, jumping from argument topic to another one doesn't favor you... really... we all expect more from you. Regards -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

InDeep wrote: > Daniel... be careful here to get it right... > > I'm not sure Sears is still an Informix user or customer. I did get a > req a couple of weeks ago for a MySQL DBA slot at Sears in Chicago. So > your count of 3 Informix customers is now down to 2 max with one (1) > maybe customer. > > Anyway... > > OTC you'll like this link even better: *<8o) > > http://www.oracle.com/customers/cust_list_atoz.html > > It should put to rest the argument that you shouldn't show off your > customers because they might reveal their "competitive advantage". I heard > that one a while back from Informix people and some IBM sycophants. > > ( Factoid: I have been suggesting for YEARS that IBM should be doing at > the very least what Oracle does as well as Microsoft! ) > > But hey what do I know... > > -Deep- > > DA Morgan wrote: >> I Like IBM wrote: >> >>> Why do you keep changing the goalpost in order to win your >>> argument in bashing IBM. You first doubted not even 100 customers >>> of Informix. Once you were proved wrong, you bring next set of >>> criteria. >> >> Proven wrong? Where? When? I didn't see a list with 100 names. I >> didn't see a list with 10 names. I have yet to see a list with 5 names. >> Let's see there's Sears and Walmart and Cisco and ....? >> >> I wonder how another company handles the same issue? >> http://www.oracle.com/industries/index.html >> >> Select an industry. >> Click on the link on page right where it says "Customers." Then >> click on the "All customers" link. >> Click on the "View All Customers" link. >> >> No secrets ... no NDA ... no nonsense. >> >> Now what was that you proved? > InDeep you just proved that the Oracle COMPANY (not the Oracle RDBMS) has 2088 (I counted bullets) customers. Where are the other tens of thousands...? For Oracle's sake I do hope that this is a far cry from their total number of customers... Comparing this to any IDS list is silly. You would have to compare to an IBM customer list. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

DA Morgan wrote: > Fernando Nunes wrote: > >> We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install it >> you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... >> Regards. > > As Mogens Norgaard told IBM: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzV4LZnvHc Timeslapse... tskstk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULX607_9uAQ And you are changing topics... -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

Serge Rielau wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Fernando Nunes wrote: >> >>> We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install it >>> you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... >>> Regards. >> >> As Mogens Norgaard told IBM: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzV4LZnvHc > Timeslapse... tskstk: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULX607_9uAQ > > And you are changing topics... > > Looks like you need a lot of balls to install DB2....

Mark Townsend wrote: > Serge Rielau wrote: >> DA Morgan wrote: >>> Fernando Nunes wrote: >>> >>>> We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install >>>> it you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... >>>> Regards. >>> >>> As Mogens Norgaard told IBM: >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzV4LZnvHc >> Timeslapse... tskstk: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULX607_9uAQ > Looks like you need a lot of balls to install DB2.... ...and insane to install Oracle... -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

Serge Rielau wrote: > Mark Townsend wrote: >> Serge Rielau wrote: >>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>> Fernando Nunes wrote: >>>> >>>>> We even get questions on installation... and if you try to install >>>>> it you'll see how "newbie" you have to be... >>>>> Regards. >>>> >>>> As Mogens Norgaard told IBM: >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHzV4LZnvHc >>> Timeslapse... tskstk: >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULX607_9uAQ >> Looks like you need a lot of balls to install DB2.... > ...and insane to install Oracle... > > If this two examples refers to what happens to people after getting in touch with this two products I'm glad I work with Informix ;) It has a "next next..." installation, a silent installation and much more important, doesn't lead me to make silly videos! ;) Regards -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

Fernando Nunes wrote: > http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/downloads/im/ids/dev.html?S_TACT=105AGX28&S_CMP=DLMAIN > > You're wrong... again... It's just like OTC wrote. Thank you. I will do so now. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Fernando Nunes wrote: > You could consider that IBM doesn't post list of it's customers... More than willing to accept that. Every company can make its choices. But no one in this usenet group is corporate IBM with the possible exception of Serge. The only reason I make the point is that this little sewing circle gives the impression that everything they know from alpha through omega is covered by NDA which is a blivet. The truth is that there is a lot of everything in the real world and very few companies that are not using two or more RDBMS products somewhere between new systems and legacy systems. And yes there is a decent amount of Informix in the real world too. The issue that this group seems afraid to confront head-on is that we are in a very fast moving industry that is rapidly consolidating. No matter how good your favorite brand may have been, or may still be, the reality of the marketplace is that there are only 2.5 products left and yours didn't make the cut. And with that I am exiting this thread stage-left. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > Fernando Nunes wrote: > >> You could consider that IBM doesn't post list of it's customers... > > More than willing to accept that. Every company can make its choices. > But no one in this usenet group is corporate IBM with the possible > exception of Serge. > > The only reason I make the point is that this little sewing circle > gives the impression that everything they know from alpha through > omega is covered by NDA which is a blivet. > > The truth is that there is a lot of everything in the real world > and very few companies that are not using two or more RDBMS products > somewhere between new systems and legacy systems. And yes there is a > decent amount of Informix in the real world too. The issue that this > group seems afraid to confront head-on is that we are in a very fast > moving industry that is rapidly consolidating. No matter how good > your favorite brand may have been, or may still be, the reality of > the marketplace is that there are only 2.5 products left and yours > didn't make the cut. > > And with that I am exiting this thread stage-left. Are you leaving so soon?! Even without giving us a glimpse of integrity you asked OTC to show? You're doing it again... It's a shame... You come, drop some insinuation or simply some lie, you're then proven wrong, and there you go again... for a few days/weeks... Maybe expecting people forget you... As some other posters know, Google keeps working... Saving evidences for the future... So, even if we try, we can never forget you. Well... Keep trying... I'll keep reading. Regards, -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

Serge Rielau wrote: > InDeep you just proved that the Oracle COMPANY (not the Oracle RDBMS) > has 2088 (I counted bullets) customers. Where are the other tens of > thousands...? *<8o) C'mon Surge, you know that's silly. > For Oracle's sake I do hope that this is a far cry from their total > number of customers... > Don't you find it interesting that Oracle is making it happen without hardware sales? They continue to kick IBMs ass without selling any hardware. That should be something you should think about. Oracle doesn't sell Operating Systems ( well other than their own version of RedHat, which isn't very good right now, but over time they will make it better. ) They appear to be more concerned about Microsoft than IBM. Oracles' web site has customer names on it, IBMs does not, plain and simple. > Comparing this to any IDS list is silly. You would have to compare to an > IBM customer list. > OK, and so there's no IBM customer list so that's a silly statement. My point was and remains, there are pro-IBM people that want to defend the absence of customer stories and cases about Informix ( or even DB2 but not as bad ) as if to suggest that we should take on face value that Informix is succeeding in the market. If Informix is succeeding in the market, and there's all these Informix customers, then why not show them off? Why not show me the success? > Cheers > Serge Yeah, so far you're willing to defend a company that doesn't even try to compete on a level playing field with their database products. It appears that the market is responding on all levels to Oracle in ways that IBM can't even touch. I like that. Most of the people I'm running into with Oracle don't even care if Oracle is good, it's not about that. It's about market stability, market presence, and mind share. I can ask the people down the hall if they know who Oracle is and even the cleaning lady knows who Oracle is. My DBA knows how to get good, fast performance out of Oracle, and management is as happy as a pig in poop. So that's the bottom line. Do they care about DB2? Informix? Not even a little. IBM has to get beyond the tech, and show some marketing savvy like Oracle.

Fernando Nunes wrote: > You could consider that IBM doesn't post list of it's customers... > And if you want just 5, probably the success stories will cover that > And if you look carefully, you'll find 43... > You mentioned before IBM does things to earn money... Following your > (ir)rational, we'd be accepting that all the IDS 11 and 11.50 investment > would be covered by 3 customers! That's so ridiculous that can't even be > funny... > > Regards > Fernando, I remember back a few years ago b4 IBM bought Informix, where Informix people told me that they could never open source Informix SE, and could not even port SE to Linux either, not even just the binaries. They told me some big defense customer was using SE in a big way and it would compromise our national defense to give away the software. Then they flip-flopped on this when the news that Oracle was porting to Linux, and SE came out magically on Linux. The point is, don't be so absolute about what you say, the market can change things that appear to be solid. It can happen quickly too. Never say never. It _is_ conceivable that Informix _is_ being funding by several large customers, a handful, especially when those customers are already established. It is not far-fetched to believe that Walmart alone could fund Informix. The idea that IBM cannot tell us more about the success of Informix in the market should be troubling to you. As a developer, wouldn't you want to know how the market responds to a product? Remember CA a few years ago announcing Ingres? Nobody cared, and nobody responded, and where is Ingres today? The market matters, and knowing about how customers respond to Informix _is_ important. -ID-

InDeep wrote: [snip] > I remember back a few years ago b4 IBM bought Informix, where Informix > people told me that they could never open source Informix SE, and could > not even port SE to Linux either, not even just the binaries. They told > me some big defense customer was using SE in a big way and it would > compromise our national defense to give away the software. Then they > flip-flopped on this when the news that Oracle was porting to Linux, and > SE came out magically on Linux. The point is, don't be so absolute > about what you say, the market can change things that appear to be > solid. It can happen quickly too. Never say never. [snip] not too sure where you are getting your facts from, because Informix ported products to Linux before Oracle even thought about doing that. Oracle announced that they would port to Linux before Informix, out of panic: they knew the next day Informix would be handing out free cd's with a fully functional Linux port of SE, at the Informix WorldWide User Conference. I was there when this happened, where were you? -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco /UK /IBM Standard disclaimers apply! Structured Query Scripting Language http://www.4glworks.com/sqsl.htm 4glworks http://www.4glworks.com Informix on Linux http://www.4glworks.com/ifmxlinux.htm

InDeep wrote: > Fernando Nunes wrote: > It _is_ conceivable that Informix _is_ being funding by several large > customers, a handful, especially when those customers are already > established. It is not far-fetched to believe that Walmart alone could > fund Informix. The idea that IBM cannot tell us more about the success Jumping topic? Even assuming that big customers are "funding" Informix what does that tell about the number of customers? Nothing. Specially nothing about the ridiculous numbers mentioned here... And of course, you said 100 as you could have said 10 or 10000. You obviously know that their names will not pop up here on Usenet... > of Informix in the market should be troubling to you. As a developer, > wouldn't you want to know how the market responds to a product? As an Informix user/fan I'm always happy to hear about good news. That include new versions, customer success stories, new features, informix integration in the "normal IBM processes", new course versions (covering the latest versions and features), personal customer feedback, fun uses for the product etc. And I've seen all of these. Not as much as I would like? Not as much as you'd like? Not as much as YMG would like? More than DA would like? Hopefully people will never be happy. That is a good sign. Of course to see all the above you have to really care and use the product... This means reading about it, checking the versions, listen to webcasts, follow some useful forums etc. Regards, -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently...

Marco Greco wrote: > > InDeep wrote: > [snip] >> I remember back a few years ago b4 IBM bought Informix, where Informix >> people told me that they could never open source Informix SE, and could >> not even port SE to Linux either, not even just the binaries. They told >> me some big defense customer was using SE in a big way and it would >> compromise our national defense to give away the software. Then they >> flip-flopped on this when the news that Oracle was porting to Linux, and >> SE came out magically on Linux. The point is, don't be so absolute >> about what you say, the market can change things that appear to be >> solid. It can happen quickly too. Never say never. > [snip] > > not too sure where you are getting your facts from, because Informix ported > products to Linux before Oracle even thought about doing that. > Oracle announced that they would port to Linux before Informix, out of panic: > they knew the next day Informix would be handing out free cd's with a fully > functional Linux port of SE, at the Informix WorldWide User Conference. > I was there when this happened, where were you? > Standing next to you. *<8o)

On Sep 9, 11:41 pm, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.org> wrote: > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > > InDeep wrote: > > >> What _can_ you do to get a full, production-ready, enterprise edition of > >> IDS out there for developers and budding DBAs? When can you have this > >> done? We'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting...<yawn> > > > And I still want to know what is wrong with the Developer Edition, which > > limits you ONLY on the number of users you can have? Come on, tell us > > why that isn't good enough? > > Since you asked ... tell me where my students, non-IBM customers, can > download a copy for free. Tell me that like the software available for > free download from Microsoft and Oracle it is undamaged and fully > functional. Tell that, like Oracle, it does not contain a ticking > clock after which it expires. > Well when the product runs like carp, why do you need to keep people from boot-legging it? :-)

On Sep 10, 1:43 am, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: > > I'm not sure Sears is still an Informix user or customer. I did get a > req a couple of weeks ago for a MySQL DBA slot at Sears in Chicago. So > your count of 3 Informix customers is now down to 2 max with one (1) > maybe customer. > Wow, they still haven't filled that slot? Ok first things first. The group hiring is based in downtown chicago, not hoffman estates. So this isn't any indication of Sears moving off Informix. Here's a funny story about K-Sears. Sears used to outsource to IBM. The former client rep became a Sears employee. When it came time to renew outsourcing contract, former IBM client rep chose CSC. In walks K-mart and they buy Sears. K-mart likes to do things in house. Also CSC got in over their head. (From what I heard). K-Sears kicks out CSC. (Don't know what happened with the lawsuit...) All sorts of fun and games going on.... But as to Sears getting rid of IDS, its not a simple thing to do. First you have this really, really nice license discount. I don't know the numbers but a J level discount makes anything IBM sells dirt cheap. Second, you have to deal with a maintenance cost vs a net new license cost. Maintenance is < 20% the price of a net new license. (generally speaking) So with respect to this posted position, not sure which group this is and what they plan on doing. With K-Sear's "new" management (2 years now), its anybody's guess. But hey! What do I know? I'm just repeating a short version of a lot of stories I've heard from a couple of different people.

InDeep wrote: >> I was there when this happened, where were you? >> > Standing next to you. > > *<8o) This easy, eh? Tim, why don't you just use your name when posting.... -- Ciao, Marco ______________________________________________________________________________ Marco Greco /UK /IBM Standard disclaimers apply! Structured Query Scripting Language http://www.4glworks.com/sqsl.htm 4glworks http://www.4glworks.com Informix on Linux http://www.4glworks.com/ifmxlinux.htm

On Sep 10, 9:21 am, DA Morgan <damor...@psoug.org> wrote: > Fernando Nunes wrote: > > You could consider that IBM doesn't post list of it's customers... > > More than willing to accept that. Every company can make its choices. > But no one in this usenet group is corporate IBM with the possible > exception of Serge. > > The only reason I make the point is that this little sewing circle > gives the impression that everything they know from alpha through > omega is covered by NDA which is a blivet. > No, not true. Lots of times one hears stories told out of school and that retelling the story in public can burn a few bridges. Not to mention that said stories may also not make other customers happy with the company. A lot of things are covered by NDA. Of course NDAs usually have a time limit so there are some things that former IBMers can say. ;-) > The truth is that there is a lot of everything in the real world > and very few companies that are not using two or more RDBMS products > somewhere between new systems and legacy systems. And yes there is a > decent amount of Informix in the real world too. The issue that this > group seems afraid to confront head-on is that we are in a very fast > moving industry that is rapidly consolidating. No matter how good > your favorite brand may have been, or may still be, the reality of > the marketplace is that there are only 2.5 products left and yours > didn't make the cut. > Actually you're going to find that companies are consolidating platforms as part of a cost savings. You'll see a company using DB2 on the mainframe and then Oracle , IDS, Microsoft on their distributed platforms. Had a former client kill off their redbrick and sybase stuff and are all Oracle. Of course the new management also is centralizing on .net and I think they're planning on phasing out their mainframe stuff too. But hey! What do I know? > And with that I am exiting this thread stage-left. > -- > Daniel A. Morgan > University of Washington > damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Marco Greco wrote: > InDeep wrote: > >>> I was there when this happened, where were you? >>> >> Standing next to you. >> >> *<8o) > > This easy, eh? > why don't you just use your name when posting.... > http://www.masterplanthemovie.com and veiled threats from people... where have you been? *<8o)

IBM case studies: http://www.ibm.com/software/success/cssdb.nsf/topstoriesFM?OpenForm&Site=default&cty=en_us Go wild. Note that if your search is too coarse it shows only the first 250 hits. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab