THE FUTURE OF I4GL/ISQL?

Somehow I get the feeling that IBM acquired INFORMIX in order to migrate the existing customer base by promoting the re-write of 4GL, ISQL, ESQL/C and ESQL/COBOL with things like EGL (see EGL posts by IBM'ers), Rational, WebSphere, etc. I see IBM putting alot of emphasis on IDS, but I4GL has not seen any upgrades since 7.5, ISQL since 7.32 and so forth, and NO 4GL WINDOWS GUI. I have only heard of one 4GL to EGL conversion in Egypt and only a handful of EGL shops, also only in Egypt. Meantime, I haven't heard of any 4GL shops converting to anythong else!.. If something works, and took a long time to bullet-proof, why change it?.. So where is 4GL/ISQL headed?

On Tue, 2010-03-30 at 22:47 -0400, FRANK COMPUTER wrote: > Somehow I get the feeling that IBM acquired INFORMIX in order to migrate the > existing customer base by promoting the re-write of 4GL, ISQL, ESQL/C and > ESQL/COBOL with things like EGL (see EGL posts by IBM'ers), Rational, > WebSphere, etc. I see IBM putting alot of emphasis on IDS, but I4GL has not > seen any upgrades since 7.5, ISQL since 7.32 and so forth, and NO 4GL WINDOWS > GUI. I have only heard of one 4GL to EGL conversion in Egypt and only a > handful of EGL shops, also only in Egypt. Meantime, I haven't heard of any 4GL > shops converting to anythong else!.. We have simply been converting to 'standard' web based AJAX applications; replacing most 4GL applications doesn't require anything as sophisticated as WebSphere. A significant portion of 4GL applications aren't that much more than CRUD screens. > If something works, and took a long time > to bullet-proof, why change it?.. Related talent is scarce and expensive. The toolset is sad compared to 'modern' tools like Visual Studio and its Open Source equivalents (Monodevelop, SharpDevelop, Eclipse). A great deal of the 4GL code may be operationally bullet-proof - but it is terrible code; most developers these days expect [or are at least trained in] object-oriented design. > So where is 4GL/ISQL headed? The ash can.

This is my personal view. Not an IBM statement. 4GL and ISQL are character based languages/applications. They are not event driven technologies. This is one of the reasons why conversions tend to be difficult. On the other hand, it's hard to improve this kind of technologies without forcing the applications to be re-written. Another problem in migrations, that many times make them fail is the lack of preparation of the development teams. It's completely different to use a J2EE environment with so many components than a simple environment like 4GL is. So, in this scenario what can be done? Well, in my opinion, something was already done, and should be improved in the future: new 4GL versions can export and call web services. This is great to re-use 4GL business logic in more "modern" environments. And 4GL coding still is probably one of the most productive ways to build applications (due to it's simplicity). Regards. On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:47 AM, FRANK COMPUTER <frank@frankcomputer.com>wrote: > Somehow I get the feeling that IBM acquired INFORMIX in order to migrate > the > existing customer base by promoting the re-write of 4GL, ISQL, ESQL/C and > ESQL/COBOL with things like EGL (see EGL posts by IBM'ers), Rational, > WebSphere, etc. I see IBM putting alot of emphasis on IDS, but I4GL has not > seen any upgrades since 7.5, ISQL since 7.32 and so forth, and NO 4GL > WINDOWS > GUI. I have only heard of one 4GL to EGL conversion in Egypt and only a > handful of EGL shops, also only in Egypt. Meantime, I haven't heard of any > 4GL > shops converting to anythong else!.. If something works, and took a long > time > to bullet-proof, why change it?.. So where is 4GL/ISQL headed? > > > > ******************************************************************************* > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. > > -- Fernando Nunes Portugal http://informix-technology.blogspot.com My email works... but I don't check it frequently... --0016e6d77f11cff9cf0483174bee

Hi, IBM finally gave some signs of will in evolving 4gl. The version with web services is that sign. In my opinion 4gl still could evolve a lot and be modernized. I disagree on that conversion is difficult based on the paradigm. I think that it's difficult because a lot of applications use C extensively and without any kind of care with multi-threading, safety and or sending things directly to the screen. I think that the more customers press IBM, the more evolution we see in 4gl. 4gl is still one of the most important reasons to use Informix Dynamic Server and those user should push IBM to evolve it . In the meanwhile 4js, querix, and the recent version of graphic UI in Aubit4gl showed that it is possible to have a better interface a lot more functionality. Incoming web 2.0 version of Aubit4gl will be a proof that things can work with modern stuff. Sérgio Em 31-03-2010 12:46, Fernando Nunes escreveu: > This is my personal view. Not an IBM statement. > 4GL and ISQL are character based languages/applications. They are not event > driven technologies. > This is one of the reasons why conversions tend to be difficult. On the > other hand, it's hard to improve this kind of technologies without forcing > the applications to be re-written. > Another problem in migrations, that many times make them fail is the lack of > preparation of the development teams. It's completely different to use a > J2EE environment with so many components than a simple environment like 4GL > is. > > So, in this scenario what can be done? Well, in my opinion, something was > already done, and should be improved in the future: new 4GL versions can > export and call web services. This is great to re-use 4GL business logic in > more "modern" environments. And 4GL coding still is probably one of the most > productive ways to build applications (due to it's simplicity). > > Regards. > > On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 3:47 AM, FRANK COMPUTER > <frank@frankcomputer.com>wrote: > > >> Somehow I get the feeling that IBM acquired INFORMIX in order to migrate >> the >> existing customer base by promoting the re-write of 4GL, ISQL, ESQL/C and >> ESQL/COBOL with things like EGL (see EGL posts by IBM'ers), Rational, >> WebSphere, etc. I see IBM putting alot of emphasis on IDS, but I4GL has not >> seen any upgrades since 7.5, ISQL since 7.32 and so forth, and NO 4GL >> WINDOWS >> GUI. I have only heard of one 4GL to EGL conversion in Egypt and only a >> handful of EGL shops, also only in Egypt. Meantime, I haven't heard of any >> 4GL >> shops converting to anythong else!.. If something works, and took a long >> time >> to bullet-proof, why change it?.. So where is 4GL/ISQL headed? >> >> >> >> >> > ******************************************************************************* > >> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum. >> >> >> >

Ditto!.. Could not have said it better!.. So, how about it 4GL loyals?.. and how about it IBM?.. There's too many 4GL apps and man-hours invested into them!