IBM 10year plan for Informix
A user asked where to get an official IBM 10-year roadmap for Informix, after an Oracle consultant claimed IBM had no plans for the product. Responders explained that IBM (and realistically no vendor) publishes roadmaps that far out, typically only about five years, and pointed to the January 2008 IDS roadmap PDF on informix-zone.com and to IBM's January 2009 "IDS 2009 Roadmap and Future Direction" lab chat page as the best available official material. Others suggested countering by asking Oracle to produce its own vetted 10-year plan, and the thread drifted into a debate about vendor FUD and sales tactics.
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Dear all Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently the Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. I need something official, can anybody point me in the correct direction. Kind Regards David Reed
>> David Reed" <David.Reed@tollink.co.za> wrote in message >> news:mailman.308.1235723870.1831.informix-list@iiug.org... Dear all Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently the Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. I need something official, can anybody point me in the correct direction. Kind Regards David Reed To my knowledge, IBM never publishes a roadmap beyond 5 years for any product. There is a roadmap dated Jabuary 2008, showing the plan up to 2012, available at http://www.informix-zone.com/files/presentations/ids_roadmap_2008.pdf (plus lots of other Informix information at this excellent webiste). I have it in mind that I've fairly recently (within the last month) seen an updated one, but I can't now find it, maybe it was at a Partner presentation. I've asked the IBM Worldwide programme manager if she has one and will post the link if so.
"Apparently they got something like that from Oracle" Would be interesting to see what they get! I am not aware of any software vendor that gives a product rouadmap for 10 years. I suspect this is more "fud" from Oracle indicating to the client that investing in Informix would be a bad idea as IBM will not continue to develop it. Informix has now been part of IBM for 8 years. Development is probably now moving forward better than it was in the last few years of Informix! Anyway, drop me an email and I will try to find someone in IBM that can work with you to address your clients concerns.
David Reed wrote: > Dear all > > Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the > 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. > > Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently the > Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. > > I need something official, can anybody point me in the correct direction. Kindly request the 10 year plan from Oracle. If Oracle has a 10 year plan and they plan on having a release every two years, then that means that they have the next 5 releases planned out. And if they already have that in place, then they are not considering the changes which will occur in the technical/user environment. And without being able to respond to that, then --- well... We have a continuous plan - to do what is necessary to increase earnings by providing software which provides our existing customers value and which will attract new customers. IBM does not have a 10 year plan on anything beyond that. > > Kind Regards > > David Reed >
Topic: IDS 2009 Roadmap and Future Direction Date: Thursday, January 29th http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/informix/labchats/#21 No 10 year plan in the most recent chat with the labs. Oracle sales people are..."special"...like predator lenders in the mortgage crisis... Does Oracle have a 10 year plan for the stock market? -----Original Message----- From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Madison Pruet Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:01 AM To: informix-list@iiug.org Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix David Reed wrote: > Dear all > > Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the > 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. > > Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently the > Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. > > I need something official, can anybody point me in the correct direction. > > Kind Regards > > David Reed >
"Norma Jean Sebastian" <nsebastian@flinnsci.com> wrote in message news:mailman.312.1235740623.1831.informix-list@iiug.org... Topic: IDS 2009 Roadmap and Future Direction Date: Thursday, January 29th http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/informix/labchats/#21 >> No 10 year plan in the most recent chat with the labs. I just privately mailed you the 2009 roadmap pdf, then saw Norma Jean's superior link!
Norma Jean Sebastian wrote: > Topic: IDS 2009 Roadmap and Future Direction > Date: Thursday, January 29th > http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/informix/labchats/#21 > > No 10 year plan in the most recent chat with the labs. > > Oracle sales people are..."special"...like predator lenders in the > mortgage crisis... > Does Oracle have a 10 year plan for the stock market? Oracle's stock price is now where Informix's stock price was when Oracle trumpeted "They're going bust!!". > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org > [mailto:informix-list-bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Madison Pruet > Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 7:01 AM > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix > > David Reed wrote: >> Dear all >> >> Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the > >> 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. >> >> Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently > the >> Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. >> >> I need something official, can anybody point me in the correct > direction. >> Kind Regards >> >> David Reed >> -- }(:
Wikking wrote: > Norma Jean Sebastian wrote: >> Topic: IDS 2009 Roadmap and Future Direction >> Date: Thursday, January 29th >> http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/informix/labchats/#21 >> >> No 10 year plan in the most recent chat with the labs. >> >> Oracle sales people are..."special"...like predator lenders in the >> mortgage crisis... >> Does Oracle have a 10 year plan for the stock market? > > Oracle's stock price is now where Informix's stock price was when > Oracle trumpeted "They're going bust!!". > Uh oh - IBM must be in real trouble then - http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=ibm#chart3:symbol=ibm;range=5y;compare=orcl;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
Madison Pruet wrote: > David Reed wrote: >> Dear all >> >> Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the >> 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. >> >> Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently >> the Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. Nobody at Oracle has provided a 10 year plan (at least an official one) for the database. For apps, maybe, but I doubt it >> >> I need something official, can anybody point me in the correct direction. > > Kindly request the 10 year plan from Oracle. If Oracle has a 10 year > plan and they plan on having a release every two years, then that means > that they have the next 5 releases planned out. And if they already > have that in place, then they are not considering the changes which will > occur in the technical/user environment. And without being able to > respond to that, then --- well... Plainly ridiculous
David Reed wrote: > Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the > 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. > > Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently the > Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. As the client to get the Oracle document vetted by an Oracle spokes person/legal and that problem will go away. If this Oracle consultant actually works for Oracle he'll be in deep sh** for putting Oracle in a very awkward position. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab
Serge Rielau wrote: > David Reed wrote: >> Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the >> 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. >> >> Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently >> the Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. > As the client to get the Oracle document vetted by an Oracle spokes > person/legal and that problem will go away. If this Oracle consultant > actually works for Oracle he'll be in deep sh** for putting Oracle in a > very awkward position. > > Cheers > Serge > I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. -- }(:
Wikking wrote: > Serge Rielau wrote: >> David Reed wrote: >>> Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the >>> 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. >>> >>> Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently >>> the Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. >> As the client to get the Oracle document vetted by an Oracle spokes >> person/legal and that problem will go away. If this Oracle consultant >> actually works for Oracle he'll be in deep sh** for putting Oracle in a >> very awkward position. >> >> Cheers >> Serge >> > I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same tactics by Oracle, many times. -- Cheers, Obnoxio The Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by OpenProtect(http://www.openprotect.com), and is believed to be clean.
On Mar 2, 1:15 am, Obnoxio The Clown <obno...@serendipita.com> wrote: > Wikking wrote: > > Serge Rielau wrote: > >> David Reed wrote: > >>> Our client is insisting on some official document from IBM stating the > >>> 10 year plan / roadmap that they have for Informix. > > >>> Apparently they got something like that from Oracle, and apparently > >>> the Oracle consultants is saying that IBM have no plan for Informix. > >> As the client to get the Oracle document vetted by an Oracle spokes > >> person/legal and that problem will go away. If this Oracle consultant > >> actually works for Oracle he'll be in deep sh** for putting Oracle in a > >> very awkward position. > > >> Cheers > >> Serge > > > I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. > > It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same > tactics by Oracle, many times. > > -- And IBM uses the same tactic. Its part of Solutions Selling Methodology. (Something which should be mandatory for all employees that might interface with a customer.) The point is that Oracle is in column B or C and IBM Informix is in Column A. (Column A means first choice). So if you're not in Column A, you're either column fodder or you need to find flaws and create FUD so that the customer questions their decision to put Informix in Column A. Then once you have an opening, you can then sell the value proposition of your product. Its how the selling process works. The sad thing is that this Oracle rep chose a really bad topic or issue to raise FUD. Two things happen. 1) You can counter their FUD by attacking their '10 year' plan. Its easy because if anyone puts something in to their '10 year plan' they are committed to it. If not, then their 10 year plan is useless. 2) There are much easier ways to attack IBM and create serious FUD. Of course I can say the same for Oracle, and DB2, Sybase, SQLSever and MySQL. All products have strengths and weaknesses. All sorts of FUD can be created and a good sales reps needs to learn how to deflect and counter with re-iterating a part of the value proposition of the product. Specifically in this case... You can counter by doing the following: Assuming that Oracle has a 10 year plan, that means that if its on their plan, they are committed to it. Sybase lost a lot of their Financial Customer base by not being able to offer a Time Series data type on time after they promised it. So what happens if the market conditions and technologies change? A company which has a committed 10 year plan, will have a harder time adapting to changes in technologies and market conditions because of their commitments and the required impact analysis. IBM Informix doesn't have such constraints. As seen in presentations by IBM, they have a shorter term graph and only talk about features that they have committed to in their next product release cycle. Lessons learned from 9/11 shows the importance of having an alternative site live replication strategy. In the past release, Informix has improved upon their HA / Replication components and is currently the industry leader in Enterprise Replication. Recently we've seen a rash of identity fraud and major intrusions in to companies' corporate data infrastructure. IBM has responded by strengthening their security via the addition of Encryption within the engine, LBAC, and improvements on their PAM/LDAP interfaces. This makes it easier to implement an Informix based solution in to areas where one needs to exceed industry compliance standards like CPI and HIPAA. Going forward in the next release of IDS, IBM is enhancing and offering the following... Sure IBM can put out a 10 year plan, however, beyond showing the next two major releases, the information is meaningless and will most likely change. In choosing a database vendor, isn't it important to base your choice on the existing features, near term features, and the reliability of those features? Wouldn't you agree that its more important to be responsive to critical industry and economic changes than it is to tie oneself down with a long term plan? -=- Of course there are a couple of area where you can digress and either create fud against a competitor or you can continue and re-iterate the value of your solution. Simple, right? ;-) I guess Mark Townsend is falling asleep at the wheel. I realize he's just Oracle's competitive wonk who probably focuses on feature to feature comparison, however one would also hope that he's engaged in producing Oracle's attack sheets too. ( I wonder who does this for IBM? ;-) -=- But hey! What do I know?
>> I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. > > It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same > tactics by Oracle, many times. > Many times you have received a 10 year plan from Oracle ? I call bullshit
> From: markbtownsend@sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:49:04 -0800 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > >> I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. > > > > It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same > > tactics by Oracle, many times. > > > > Many times you have received a 10 year plan from Oracle ? I call bullshit I believe he means that he's been on the receiving end of Oracle sales critters using similar tactics to move from the column fodder to column A. As to getting a lot of 10 year Oracle plans from an Oracle rep? Hmmm. They would all have to be junior reps and/or very desparate. Wouldn't you agree Mark? :-P _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Life without walls. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009
"Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:mailman.329.1236031212.1831.informix-list@iiug.org... > From: markbtownsend@sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:49:04 -0800 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > >> I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. > > > > It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same > > tactics by Oracle, many times. > > > > Many times you have received a 10 year plan from Oracle ? I call bullshit > I believe he means that he's been on the receiving end of Oracle sales > critters using similar tactics to move from the column fodder to column A. > As to getting a lot of 10 year Oracle plans from an Oracle rep? > Hmmm. They would all have to be junior reps and/or very desparate. I don't know why Oracle (as a company) gets such a hard time on this group. I'm an Oracle reseller also. I sell much less than I sell IBM. But Oracle has an excellent channel programme and stands by its partners at least as well as IBM. In my experience it hits the balance between maximising income but looking out for the customer's interests as well as IBM does. As a techie I think the technology is inferior. But the marketing and advertising is far superior. Rather than sniping at Oracle I'd rather IBM looks at it and tries to see how it might learn to raise its game.
> -----Original Message----- > From: informix-list-bounces@iiug.org [mailto:informix-list- > bounces@iiug.org] On Behalf Of Neil Truby > Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:11 PM > To: informix-list@iiug.org > Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix > > > "Ian Michael Gumby" <im_gumby@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:mailman.329.1236031212.1831.informix-list@iiug.org... > > > > From: markbtownsend@sbcglobal.net > > Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix > > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 13:49:04 -0800 > > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > > > > >> I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. > > > > > > It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same > > > tactics by Oracle, many times. > > > > > > > Many times you have received a 10 year plan from Oracle ? I call > bullshit > > > I believe he means that he's been on the receiving end of Oracle sales > > critters using similar tactics to move from the column fodder to column > A. > > > As to getting a lot of 10 year Oracle plans from an Oracle rep? > > Hmmm. They would all have to be junior reps and/or very desparate. > > I don't know why Oracle (as a company) gets such a hard time on this > group. > I'm an Oracle reseller also. I sell much less than I sell IBM. But > Oracle > has an excellent channel programme and stands by its partners at least as > well as IBM. > In my experience it hits the balance between maximising income but looking > out for the customer's interests as well as IBM does. > > As a techie I think the technology is inferior. But the marketing and > advertising is far superior. > > Rather than sniping at Oracle I'd rather IBM looks at it and tries to see > how it might learn to raise its game. Yup that could happen this decade... Oh dang, there's only a year and three fourths left. Ok then, next decade. --EEM > > _______________________________________________ > Informix-list mailing list > Informix-list@iiug.org > http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
Mark Townsend wrote: >>> I wonder whether its even true and not just someone trolling. >> It's not trolling. I've been on the receiving end of exactly the same >> tactics by Oracle, many times. >> > > Many times you have received a 10 year plan from Oracle ? I call bullshit I meant that I've been on the receiving end of Oracle FUD. Obviously not the new, ethical Oracle that happened since *you* joined, of course! :o> -- Cheers, Obnoxio The Clown http://obotheclown.blogspot.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by OpenProtect(http://www.openprotect.com), and is believed to be clean.
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > the new, ethical Oracle that happened since *you* joined, of course! Damn tootin', Skippy
> From: neil.truby@ardenta.com > Subject: Re: IBM 10year plan for Informix > Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 22:10:50 +0000 > To: informix-list@iiug.org > > > As to getting a lot of 10 year Oracle plans from an Oracle rep? > > Hmmm. They would all have to be junior reps and/or very desparate. > > I don't know why Oracle (as a company) gets such a hard time on this group. > I'm an Oracle reseller also. I sell much less than I sell IBM. But Oracle > has an excellent channel programme and stands by its partners at least as > well as IBM. > In my experience it hits the balance between maximising income but looking > out for the customer's interests as well as IBM does. > > As a techie I think the technology is inferior. But the marketing and > advertising is far superior. > > Rather than sniping at Oracle I'd rather IBM looks at it and tries to see > how it might learn to raise its game. > I think you're reading the wrong thing from my comments. If you've read my other posts on this topic, you will understand that my comments aren't that the Oracle reps are trying to create FUD, but that they chose such a moronic issue to be the central piece of FUD. Also if you read my posts you'd understand that you're preaching to the choir. My point was that there are more obvious points for FUD thanks to IBM's own wording.... ;-) -G _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009