Re: Top Databases Used
Not a technical problem thread at all — it's a cross-posted Oracle-vs-Informix flame war in comp.databases.informix. Participants argue over Oracle documentation quality, DBA pay rates, reliability claims (one poster citing ~100 Oracle instances up for years), and whether outsiders should be trolling the Informix group. No technical question is asked and nothing is solved; the exchange simply cools down when a poster argues all RDBMSs have merits and code should be kept portable, and Art Kagel agrees to let the thread drop.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
> > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > capabilities. > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high hourly rate is only as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with 5+ more years experience I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to use my ORACLE experience to get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that just happens to be where the money is at the current time. and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to replace or swap a hard drive
wildpony wrote: > > > > > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > > capabilities. > > > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > > > > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high > hourly rate is only > as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with > 5+ more years experience > OK, and I'm getting paid a small fortune for what I know. Mazal Tov to us both! You likely deserve it. I have no beef with that. > I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to > use my ORACLE experience to > get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. > SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that Whoa! I NEVER belittled Oracle DBAs and I don't think anyone else here did either. I did belittle the market for Oracle DBAs and programmers but that's not the same thing. Indeed you said much the same thing. With so many installations it is still hard to find good experienced Oracle DBAs. Hmmm. > just > happens to be where the money is at the > current time. > and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but > that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of > ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never > crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without > a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems > , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to > replace or swap a hard drive Same here. Art S. Kagel
Here we go again . . . wildpony wrote: > > > > > > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > > capabilities. > > > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > > > > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high > hourly rate is only > as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with > 5+ more years experience I'll leave the obvious joke alone. > I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to > use my ORACLE experience to > get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. I've seen the rates for Informix DBAs also . . . > SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that just > happens to be where the money is at the > current time. Only Oracle DBAs who post to c.d.i for the express purpose of flaming, then start a thread on c.d.o.s. I haven't noticed the core posters to c.d.i cross-post to c.d.o.* to flame; most regular posters to c.d.i are quite friendly, at least according to Deja. > and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but > that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of > ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never > crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without > a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems > , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to > replace or swap a hard drive To all: Where did this guy come from? Could someone please turn off the troll magnet? To Wildpony: While we all might value your opinion, please note the newsgroup to which your message was posted. c.d.i. is a place for Informix DBAs and developers (and users) to discuss things related to Informix, not for Oracle DBAs to brag about Oracle. Please post such messages in c.d.o.*. Thanks in advance! -- John Carlson Informix DBA WHSmith USA #include std_disclaimer.h /* These are my opinions, not my company's opinion */
my opinion and my opinion ONLY..I FEEL there is really no reason to belittle or berate any RDBMS..all have some of the same features and some have added features that work well with certain programs/processes/customer needs etc when my clients ask me for my opinion on what database they should use..well then I must ask them how much money do they want to pay for the database and possible support from the company that they are purchasing the software from and what is the purpose of the database, amount of data etc....If they want to pay the price for Oracle then so be it...I like Oracle and am more than willing to work with them on that, If they should choose Informix or DB2 well same goes. I try to make all my queries and sp, trigs portable for all RDBMS if possible in case they should want to change. I generally set up code so that it can use all drivers for all RDBMS if they should want to connect to another RDBMS/database later on in life...generic is a good term for how i opperate (spelling is not my strong point) IF my code and queries etc are pretty much portable my clients are happy and i am happy to please them..WHY anyone feels the need to flame anyone for their choose of favorite RDBMS is well quite ignorant. IF you have not tried it then dont berate or belittle it (that is not directed to you personally) I have learned my lesson about flaming one RDBMS against another and it really gets you no where but aggravates whom ever your flaming MY 2 cents and its worth every penny !!!!!!!! "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > wildpony wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > > > capabilities. > > > > > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > > > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > > > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > > > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > > > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > > > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > > > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > > > > > > > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high > > hourly rate is only > > as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with > > 5+ more years experience > > > > OK, and I'm getting paid a small fortune for what I know. Mazal Tov to us > both! You likely deserve it. I have no beef with that. > > > I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to > > use my ORACLE experience to > > get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. > > SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that > > Whoa! I NEVER belittled Oracle DBAs and I don't think anyone else here did > either. I did belittle the market for Oracle DBAs and programmers but that's > not the same thing. Indeed you said much the same thing. With so many > installations it is still hard to find good experienced Oracle DBAs. Hmmm. > > > just > > happens to be where the money is at the > > current time. > > and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but > > that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of > > ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never > > crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without > > a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems > > , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to > > replace or swap a hard drive > > Same here. > > Art S. Kagel
Ooo, a voice of sanity. I'll accept that response on face value. :-) Art S. Kagel wildpony wrote: > my opinion and my opinion ONLY..I FEEL there is really no reason to belittle > or berate any RDBMS..all have some of the same features and some have added > features that work well with certain programs/processes/customer needs etc > when my clients ask me for my opinion on what database they should use..well then > I must ask them how much money do they want to pay for the database and possible > support from the company that they are purchasing the software from and what is the > purpose of the database, amount of data etc....If they want to pay the price for > Oracle > then so be it...I like Oracle and am more than willing to work with them on that, If > they > should choose Informix or DB2 well same goes. I try to make all my queries and sp, > trigs portable for all RDBMS if possible in case they should want to change. I > generally set up code so that it can use all drivers for all RDBMS if they should > want to connect to another RDBMS/database later on in life...generic is a good term > for how i opperate (spelling is not my strong point) IF my code and queries etc are > pretty much portable my clients are happy and i am happy to please them..WHY anyone > feels the need to flame anyone for their choose of favorite RDBMS is well quite > ignorant. IF you have not tried it then dont berate or belittle it (that is not > directed to you personally) I have learned my lesson about flaming one RDBMS > against another > and it really gets you no where but aggravates whom ever your flaming > MY 2 cents and its worth every penny !!!!!!!! > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > wildpony wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > > > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > > > > capabilities. > > > > > > > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > > > > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > > > > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > > > > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > > > > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > > > > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > > > > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > > > > > > > > > > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high > > > hourly rate is only > > > as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with > > > 5+ more years experience > > > > > > > OK, and I'm getting paid a small fortune for what I know. Mazal Tov to us > > both! You likely deserve it. I have no beef with that. > > > > > I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to > > > use my ORACLE experience to > > > get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. > > > SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that > > > > Whoa! I NEVER belittled Oracle DBAs and I don't think anyone else here did > > either. I did belittle the market for Oracle DBAs and programmers but that's > > not the same thing. Indeed you said much the same thing. With so many > > installations it is still hard to find good experienced Oracle DBAs. Hmmm. > > > > > just > > > happens to be where the money is at the > > > current time. > > > and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but > > > that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of > > > ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never > > > crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without > > > a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems > > > , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to > > > replace or swap a hard drive > > > > Same here. > > > > Art S. Kagel
Art, that's "nice" of you to say that, but if I recall, this whole thread started because of Informix DBA's thrashing on Oracle. "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > Ooo, a voice of sanity. I'll accept that response on face value. :-) > > Art S. Kagel > > wildpony wrote: > > > my opinion and my opinion ONLY..I FEEL there is really no reason to belittle > > or berate any RDBMS..all have some of the same features and some have added > > features that work well with certain programs/processes/customer needs etc > > when my clients ask me for my opinion on what database they should use..well then > > I must ask them how much money do they want to pay for the database and possible > > support from the company that they are purchasing the software from and what is the > > purpose of the database, amount of data etc....If they want to pay the price for > > Oracle > > then so be it...I like Oracle and am more than willing to work with them on that, If > > they > > should choose Informix or DB2 well same goes. I try to make all my queries and sp, > > trigs portable for all RDBMS if possible in case they should want to change. I > > generally set up code so that it can use all drivers for all RDBMS if they should > > want to connect to another RDBMS/database later on in life...generic is a good term > > for how i opperate (spelling is not my strong point) IF my code and queries etc are > > pretty much portable my clients are happy and i am happy to please them..WHY anyone > > feels the need to flame anyone for their choose of favorite RDBMS is well quite > > ignorant. IF you have not tried it then dont berate or belittle it (that is not > > directed to you personally) I have learned my lesson about flaming one RDBMS > > against another > > and it really gets you no where but aggravates whom ever your flaming > > MY 2 cents and its worth every penny !!!!!!!! > > > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > > > wildpony wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > > > > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > > > > > capabilities. > > > > > > > > > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > > > > > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > > > > > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > > > > > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > > > > > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > > > > > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > > > > > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high > > > > hourly rate is only > > > > as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with > > > > 5+ more years experience > > > > > > > > > > OK, and I'm getting paid a small fortune for what I know. Mazal Tov to us > > > both! You likely deserve it. I have no beef with that. > > > > > > > I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to > > > > use my ORACLE experience to > > > > get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. > > > > SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that > > > > > > Whoa! I NEVER belittled Oracle DBAs and I don't think anyone else here did > > > either. I did belittle the market for Oracle DBAs and programmers but that's > > > not the same thing. Indeed you said much the same thing. With so many > > > installations it is still hard to find good experienced Oracle DBAs. Hmmm. > > > > > > > just > > > > happens to be where the money is at the > > > > current time. > > > > and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but > > > > that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of > > > > ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never > > > > crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without > > > > a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems > > > > , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to > > > > replace or swap a hard drive > > > > > > Same here. > > > > > > Art S. Kagel
"Carlson@WHSmith" wrote: > To Wildpony: > While we all might value your opinion, please note the newsgroup to > which your message was posted. c.d.i. is a place for Informix DBAs and > developers (and users) to discuss things related to Informix, not for > Oracle DBAs to brag about Oracle. Please post such messages in c.d.o.*. > > Thanks in advance! > -- > John Carlson > Informix DBA > WHSmith USA > > Well John I did not post here to brag as If you had read all my messages , I am an Oracle/Informix and Sql Server Senior DBA , I read messages in this newsgroup for the sole purpose to get additional information on certain things that are of importance to me as a DBA, Informix information, I do not troll around these newsgroup looking for a debate or argument, I do not go much into the Oracle newsgroup only because , Oracle is a comfort zone for me, meaning that I can pretty much do Oracle with my eyes shut, being that I have been dealing with Oracle for over 5 + years, I worked on DB2 and RedBrick 5+ years ago when they were not actually up to par and lately in the last year or so I have been working with a few Informix db, so i come in this newsgroup to check out other people problems/concerns to make sure that i am doing what is correct/effiecient/effective I really can not stand any DBA who feels the need to bash Oracle or any Oracle DBA that feels so superior that they can bash another RDBMS (ie in this case Informix) this , well to be kind gentleman DNP had no right to come over in this newsgroup and start bashing Informix and then to find out he has never worked on informix, SO the Short of the Long is that i did no bashing and i was just expressing my opinion as to why i sell myself first as an Oracle DBA before being a DBA for many RDBMS......so do not tell me what this newsgroup is used for and what it is not used for .....thank you and do not reply back as i have had enough with this bashing crap Ms. Wildpony
I don't remember anymore what started the thread. I had thought it was DNP trolling for insults here instead of posting helpful suggestions on C.D.O.*. BTW any trashing was "in the family", we did not go posting trash to CDO*, DNP came here, remember. Do you mean to say that never does the reply to a question on the Oracle newsgroups from a former or misplaced Informix user asking how to convert some Informixism to Oraclism contain such trashing? Look we for the most part believe we are using the better product, as I would hope do those posting regularly on CDO*, otherwise we'd all be posting there and they'd all be posting here. So the trashing that occurs here is "in the family" and amounts to so much puffery and is usually meant in good humor anyway. It's only when someone comes trolling, which BTW happens regularly while we NEVER go trolling on CDO*, that we become serious. Anyway since DNP has finally posted a well reasoned and reasonable response I think we can drop the thread altogether. Art S. Kagel Nikita wrote: > Art, that's "nice" of you to say that, but if I recall, this whole thread started because > of Informix DBA's > thrashing on Oracle. > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > Ooo, a voice of sanity. I'll accept that response on face value. :-) > > > > Art S. Kagel > > > > wildpony wrote: > > > > > my opinion and my opinion ONLY..I FEEL there is really no reason to belittle > > > or berate any RDBMS..all have some of the same features and some have added > > > features that work well with certain programs/processes/customer needs etc > > > when my clients ask me for my opinion on what database they should use..well then > > > I must ask them how much money do they want to pay for the database and possible > > > support from the company that they are purchasing the software from and what is the > > > purpose of the database, amount of data etc....If they want to pay the price for > > > Oracle > > > then so be it...I like Oracle and am more than willing to work with them on that, If > > > they > > > should choose Informix or DB2 well same goes. I try to make all my queries and sp, > > > trigs portable for all RDBMS if possible in case they should want to change. I > > > generally set up code so that it can use all drivers for all RDBMS if they should > > > want to connect to another RDBMS/database later on in life...generic is a good term > > > for how i opperate (spelling is not my strong point) IF my code and queries etc are > > > pretty much portable my clients are happy and i am happy to please them..WHY anyone > > > feels the need to flame anyone for their choose of favorite RDBMS is well quite > > > ignorant. IF you have not tried it then dont berate or belittle it (that is not > > > directed to you personally) I have learned my lesson about flaming one RDBMS > > > against another > > > and it really gets you no where but aggravates whom ever your flaming > > > MY 2 cents and its worth every penny !!!!!!!! > > > > > > "Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > > > > > > wildpony wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the Oracle Manuals are as difficult to read as I saw posted here, > > > > > > > then I suppose it's no surprise that you have no idea about Oracle's > > > > > > > capabilities. > > > > > > > > > > > > THAT's the problem! I, an individual of no little intellect, who has used > > > > > > as DBA, user, and programmer every major and many minor RDBMS > > > > > > products on the market since 1981 does not have a clue about the > > > > > > features and capabilities of the most popular (by sales) database package > > > > > > available today and the reason is that its manuals are so bad that such an > > > > > > experienced, sophisticated, and intelligent user cannot make heads or > > > > > > tails of their content. Damn, I should have seen it! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I currently work on three RDBMS ORACLE/ INFORMIX and SQL SLOW but my high > > > > > hourly rate is only > > > > > as high as it is , is because it is very hard to find a good ORACLE DBA with > > > > > 5+ more years experience > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, and I'm getting paid a small fortune for what I know. Mazal Tov to us > > > > both! You likely deserve it. I have no beef with that. > > > > > > > > > I have no qualms with any RDBMS , I personally and professionally prefer to > > > > > use my ORACLE experience to > > > > > get me the hourly rate that i feel i need and deserve. > > > > > SO if you want to abuse and belittle ORACLE DBA's go right ahead but that > > > > > > > > Whoa! I NEVER belittled Oracle DBAs and I don't think anyone else here did > > > > either. I did belittle the market for Oracle DBAs and programmers but that's > > > > not the same thing. Indeed you said much the same thing. With so many > > > > installations it is still hard to find good experienced Oracle DBAs. Hmmm. > > > > > > > > > just > > > > > happens to be where the money is at the > > > > > current time. > > > > > and go ahead OTC I am sure you are ready to abuse me for the above comment but > > > > > that's okay, because I have had up to 100 instances of > > > > > ORACLE database's on multiple platforms AIX/HP/SUN/NT and mine have never > > > > > crashed .....they have been up and running for 2 + years without > > > > > a problem..now my OS may have crapped out on me because of hard drive problems > > > > > , but my databases have always been recoverable is less time then it took to > > > > > replace or swap a hard drive > > > > > > > > Same here. > > > > > > > > Art S. Kagel