Re: Announcing: The IBM Customer Advisory Council for Informix

Barry Leb wrote: > Where the furur comes in is that I find it extremely insulting coming > from an Oracle bigot posting in an Informix forum for no other purpose > than to fan the flames. We do that quite well ourselves, don't we now. Your assumption about me being an Oracle bigot because no one on the faculty at a university can find any student wanting to study Informix is hardly objective. Why don't you vent your anger at the students. But if it makes you feel better aiming for the easy target by all means continue to do so. It won't save Informix but what the heck. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

>From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> >To: informix-list@iiug.org >Subject: Re: Announcing: The IBM Customer Advisory Council for Informix >Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:21:37 -0800 > >Barry Leb wrote: > > > Where the furur comes in is that I find it extremely insulting coming > > from an Oracle bigot posting in an Informix forum for no other purpose > > than to fan the flames. We do that quite well ourselves, don't we now. > >Your assumption about me being an Oracle bigot because no one on the >faculty at a university can find any student wanting to study Informix >is hardly objective. Why don't you vent your anger at the students. > >But if it makes you feel better aiming for the easy target by all means >continue to do so. It won't save Informix but what the heck. I rest my case. You're not relevant nor have you ever been as far as Informix is concerned. You lurk in this group for the sole purpose of the attention it gains you. I've decided the same is true regarding Double Echo. You're two halves of the same coin. Once again Art offered some of the most relevant advice in this forum: "Just do like the rest of us - ignore these long winded irrelevant digressions masquerading as important concern." >-- >Daniel A. Morgan >http://www.psoug.org >damorgan@x.washington.edu >(replace x with u to respond) >_______________________________________________ >Informix-list mailing list >Informix-list@iiug.org >http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list

DA Morgan said: > > Barry Leb wrote: > >> Where the furur comes in is that I find it extremely insulting coming >> from an Oracle bigot posting in an Informix forum for no other purpose >> than to fan the flames. We do that quite well ourselves, don't we now. > > Your assumption about me being an Oracle bigot because no one on the > faculty at a university can find any student wanting to study Informix I don't assume that you're an Oracle bigot for any other reason than you can't stop telling us all how wonderful it is. > is hardly objective. Why don't you vent your anger at the students. Because they aren't here fanning flames. > But if it makes you feel better aiming for the easy target by all means > continue to do so. It won't save Informix but what the heck. Well, of course, if the great Daniel Morgan would stoop to help us, I'm sure that would all change. -- Bye now, Obnoxio "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche did i mention i like nulls? heck, i even go so far as to say that all columns in a table except the primary key could/should be nullable. this has certain advantages, for example, if you need to insert a child record and you don't have a parent row for it, just do an insert into the parent table with the primary key value (everything else null), and voila, relational integrity is preserved. but this is, admittedly, a bit controversial among modellers. --r937, dbforums.com

Barry I went ahead and opened a work order to have your head pulled out of your ass. It'll have to get approved through the change control board but shouldn't be any problem. Regards, Double Echo Barry Leb wrote: > > > >> From: DA Morgan <damorgan@psoug.org> >> To: informix-list@iiug.org >> Subject: Re: Announcing: The IBM Customer Advisory Council for Informix >> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 2006 08:21:37 -0800 >> >> Barry Leb wrote: >> >> > Where the furur comes in is that I find it extremely insulting coming >> > from an Oracle bigot posting in an Informix forum for no other purpose >> > than to fan the flames. We do that quite well ourselves, don't we now. >> >> Your assumption about me being an Oracle bigot because no one on the >> faculty at a university can find any student wanting to study Informix >> is hardly objective. Why don't you vent your anger at the students. >> >> But if it makes you feel better aiming for the easy target by all means >> continue to do so. It won't save Informix but what the heck. > > I rest my case. You're not relevant nor have you ever been as far as > Informix is concerned. > > You lurk in this group for the sole purpose of the attention it gains > you. I've decided the same is true regarding Double Echo. You're two > halves of the same coin. > > Once again Art offered some of the most relevant advice in this forum: > > "Just do like the rest of us - ignore these long winded > irrelevant digressions masquerading as important concern." > >> -- >> Daniel A. Morgan >> http://www.psoug.org >> damorgan@x.washington.edu >> (replace x with u to respond) >> _______________________________________________ >> Informix-list mailing list >> Informix-list@iiug.org >> http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list > >

>But if it makes you feel better aiming for the easy target by all means >continue to do so. It won't save Informix but what the heck. -- >Daniel A. Morgan But if he wanted to hit an easy target, wouldn't he be hitting Microsoft?

"Barry I went ahead and opened a work order to have your head pulled out of your ass. It'll have to get approved through the change control board but shouldn't be any problem. Regards, Double Echo " and this helps the future of Informix how? This thread mentions that unless you are a big customer IBM will not listen to you and that IBM could dump Informix without blinking. So potential new customer read this thread and think what? Hey we the existing faithful customers (product champions and cheerleaders) have just helped Oracle and Microsofts case. Just what I didn't want to happen ... all the negativity in this thread will just help get Informix killed. I wonder how many Oracle/Microsoft/DB2 people at new potential customers will use this thread to convenice their collegues that they should not buy Informix...

> > I wonder how many Oracle/Microsoft/DB2 people at new potential > customers > will use this thread to convenice their collegues that they should not > buy Informix... > I wouldn't worry too much about the damage this thread may or may not have done. The only Oracle person lurking here now is me, and that's because I like some of you guys, the entertainment value is always high, and I don't actually have a life.

I wonder how many good things happening to Informix will get turned into another thread that says IBM are crap. We need to remain postiive. The list we have for Informix marketing is good but I want less stuff on here that fuels our competitors and more directed at IBM. Has doubleecho talked to Danilo Novelli about his concerns? Is heshe joining the CAC? Which country are they in? Who is doubleecho anyway..would he/she like to give us their real name?I could help them get their message to IBM. I remember at one Infobahn (2004/2005) I think it was Jerry Keesee saying there will never be benckmarks for Informix. Now they are happening... We have a CAC the same as DB2 at last. IBM are starting to listen... Christine Nomille posted on here and gets slammed..no wonder Carolyn Woods does not want to post on her or present to the UK Usergroup. Who wants to get slammed? Who wants to say what good things they are doing when they will just get shouted down for what they are not doing? Things will not change overnight...and every time I see something good happening it gets shouted down. We need to give IBM a reason to want to change and help us.. we need to be positive and encourage the good things that are happening. Otherwise IBM will just dump Informix. Hey what is 3% of the market when DB2 has 30+%? Some will move to DB2 and a losing a couple of percent of the market. Like anyone who matters from IBM would get fired for losing a couple of percent of the market... I'd like to know what places do not have usergroups and how we can start them.

david@smooth1.co.uk wrote: > I wonder how many good things happening to Informix will get > turned into another thread that says IBM are crap. > IBM is not crap. They make great products, they have great people working for them, and they have one of the most solid positions in the technology market, for both software and hardware. > We need to remain postiive. The list we have for Informix marketing is > good but I want less stuff on here that fuels our competitors and more > directed at IBM. > What competitors? Informix is irrelevant, it is not important. That may be hard to take, but the further you get away from Informix, the less it matters. It is anon, it does not matter in the market. There is nothing you can say about Informix that will make it matter, unless you have an active marketing campaign that will reach out to developers. Developers are the fuel that makes the whole thing work. This is why Informix was successful in the past, remember when 4GL was relevant? 4GL was the fuel that propelled Informix, not just the database. Today people want the database to propel the product, but it doesn't have any fuel! > Has doubleecho talked to Danilo Novelli about his concerns? > Is heshe joining the CAC? Which country are they in? > Who is doubleecho anyway..would he/she like to give us their > real name?I could help them get their message to IBM. > David David David... I post anon for many reasons, mainly to protect my family. Most here have respected that and I respect those others that do the same. It works best for all of you that I remain anon, because as much as I am protecting myself from Google and my enemies, I am also waiving any credit for the good that I do. I freely give ideas, and those ideas are "open sourced" to all of you. Take credit for anything I say, I will pat you on the back, and send you a box of chocolates and a long-stem rose if you need that, but I don't want any credit, or praise, I don't need it. My life is quite happy without being praised here, and I make my money completely away from Informix now, insulating myself from the uncertainty. Think about the 'why' behind what I'm saying. And don't worry about my message getting to IBM, they are getting the message. If Informix disappears tomorrow, I will be just as happy. It will be sad to see Informix go, very tragic, but I protect my family from all of that now. > I remember at one Infobahn (2004/2005) I think it was Jerry Keesee > saying there will never > be benckmarks for Informix. Now they are happening... > > We have a CAC the same as DB2 at last. IBM are starting to listen... > > Christine Nomille posted on here and gets slammed..no wonder Carolyn > Woods does not want > to post on her or present to the UK Usergroup. Who wants to get > slammed? Who wants to > say what good things they are doing when they will just get shouted > down for what they are > not doing? Things will not change overnight...and every time I see > something good happening > it gets shouted down. > David do you honestly think that people should be rewarded for being non-performers? Do you honestly think that the egregious errors of the people in custodial care of the Informix brand should be given praise? Their ineptness, and totally incompetent actions affect peoples' lives, and it is inexcusable. They cost consultants and other professionals money! > We need to give IBM a reason to want to change and help us.. we need to > be positive and > encourage the good things that are happening. Otherwise IBM will just > dump Informix. OTC made a comment that it really doesn't matter what you say here, but I'm in disagreement on that. I think he really knows that IBM does pay attention, and c.d.i will continue to be important simply because it has been important in the past in shaping the outcome and destiny of Informix. It has a definite place, and value. But what most people don't really understand is how valuable taking a stand is, compared to just cheerleading the vendor. The vendor is going to ignore cheerleading because it means the vendor doesn't have to manage that, it is FREE, paid-for mind-share and real estate they already own, they don't need to buy it or manage it, it is zero cost. What DOES cost the vendor however is negative mind-share, because that has to have focus put on it, and it has to be addressed. They are going to pay a relative amount of attention to a relative amount of pain and suffering and the cost associated with managing negative mind-share. When you or somebody cheerleads, this is like a safety valve for the vendor, the pressure drops and the vendor puts focus elsewhere. The IIUG has yet to understand this. They were completely unaware of the strategy of public forums back when the Frenchman was fucking things up, c.d.i was only part of the total package of public pressure. The vendor doesn't need to manage something they see as market equity, which can be defined as the momentum they gain in the market that they acquire, just like money in the bank. They only need to manage getting real estate back that they lose, or try to gain. This is why you need to stop cheerleading and focus on your pain. Give praise in short measure, but give pain more. Naysayers cost IBM money, cheerleaders are free bonus points to the vendor. This is why IBM is not going to do much if anything, because they don't have to. You cheerleaders just send the message to IBM that "all is ok, we can focus on other things.". You are doing the whole community a disservice by saying everything is ok, it sends the wrong message, because everything is NOT ok. > Hey what is 3% of the market when DB2 has 30+%? Some will move to DB2 > and a > losing a couple of percent of the market. Like anyone who matters from > IBM would get fired > for losing a couple of percent of the market... > > I'd like to know what places do not have usergroups and how we can > start them. > User groups are important, but more important is to get the developer community fired up. Without an active developer community you have no momentum, you have a dead product. Applications propel databases, not the other way around. Ask Bill Gates or Larry Ellison.

Double Echo wrote: > User groups are important, but more important is to get the developer > community fired up. Without an active developer community you have > no momentum, you have a dead product. Applications propel databases, > not the other way around. Ask Bill Gates or Larry Ellison. I think they know it and that is why they are so upset when it is pointed out to them that no-one, other than lifers, is part of the conversation. When was the last time you saw a posting at c.d.informix that started this with "I'm an Informix newbie?" I used google to try to figure it out and came up with Tue, 6 Feb 2001. No doubt there are more recent examples but the reality is that the conversation here is among a bunch of people with 10+ years of experience. The fact that no one is asking about how to build a scratch table or how to write a subquery should be ample evidence that those here already know how to swim ... and the size of the pond is shrinking as they age. -- Daniel A. Morgan http://www.psoug.org damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan said: > Double Echo wrote: > >> User groups are important, but more important is to get the developer >> community fired up. Without an active developer community you have >> no momentum, you have a dead product. Applications propel databases, >> not the other way around. Ask Bill Gates or Larry Ellison. > > I think they know it and that is why they are so upset when it is > pointed out to them that no-one, other than lifers, is part of the > conversation. > > When was the last time you saw a posting at c.d.informix that started > this with "I'm an Informix newbie?" I used google to try to figure it > out and came up with Tue, 6 Feb 2001. > > No doubt there are more recent examples but the reality is that the > conversation here is among a bunch of people with 10+ years of > experience. The fact that no one is asking about how to build a scratch > table or how to write a subquery should be ample evidence that those > here already know how to swim ... and the size of the pond is shrinking > as they age. I think you'd have found a much more representitive selection of recent newbies if you'd looked for the the search string "RTFM". But that would invalidate your argument, such as it is. Pathetic. -- Bye now, Obnoxio "Jesus you fucking people are hopeless." -- Double Anal "C'est pas parce qu'on n'a rien ' dire qu'il faut fermer sa gueule" - Coluche did i mention i like nulls? heck, i even go so far as to say that all columns in a table except the primary key could/should be nullable. this has certain advantages, for example, if you need to insert a child record and you don't have a parent row for it, just do an insert into the parent table with the primary key value (everything else null), and voila, relational integrity is preserved. but this is, admittedly, a bit controversial among modellers. --r937, dbforums.com