HDR Secondary - backup question
Larry asked whether he could run an ontape backup on an HDR secondary (IDS 11.50.FC6, Solaris 10), or whether he'd have to switch it to standard mode first. Art Kagel answered that ontape/onbar archives can't be taken on a secondary, and that converting it to standard is one-way — the server would have to be restored from the primary to become a secondary again. Workaround noted: RSS nodes can take external (level-0 only) backups. Larry filed RFE #76777 for the capability; discussion then turned to how it might be implemented (e.g. IFX_BAR_USE_DEDUP, level-0 only). No fix available in-thread.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
Solaris 10
IDS 11.50.FC6
Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server while
replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to "Standard" mode to
back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able to change it
back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change something to
make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the downtime, so
that should not be an issue.)
Thank you.
Larry
You cannot change a server from "standard" mode to "secondary" or "RSS"
mode. If you convert the secondary to standard so you can archive it, you
will have to restore the secondary from the actual primary in order to
reestablish it as a secondary.
I suggest that you go to the IBM RFE (Request For Enhancement) site and
request an enhancement to be able to place a secondary into a mode that
would allow an archive to be taken from it without breaking replication.
The site is:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=changeRequestLanding
Once you've done that you can post the RFE number here and ask us to vote
for your request!
Art
Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
ASK Database Management
www.askdbmgt.com
Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am
associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:55 PM, LARRY SORENSEN <lsorensen25@msn.com> wrote:
> Solaris 10
> IDS 11.50.FC6
>
> Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server while
> replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to "Standard"
> mode to
> back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able to change
> it
> back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change
> something to
> make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the
> downtime, so
> that should not be an issue.)
>
> Thank you.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--089e01176cad6b2458051f56cb27
I have created an RFE: #76777 - "Enable HDR Secondary to perform archives". I
encourage all interested parties to log in and vote for this enhancement.
Larry
> To: ids@iiug.org
> From: art.kagel@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: HDR Secondary - backup question [35772]
> Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:02:05 -0400
>
> You cannot change a server from "standard" mode to "secondary" or "RSS"
> mode. If you convert the secondary to standard so you can archive it, you
> will have to restore the secondary from the actual primary in order to
> reestablish it as a secondary.
>
> I suggest that you go to the IBM RFE (Request For Enhancement) site and
> request an enhancement to be able to place a secondary into a mode that
> would allow an archive to be taken from it without breaking replication.
> The site is:
>
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=changeRequestLanding
>
> Once you've done that you can post the RFE number here and ask us to vote
> for your request!
>
> Art
>
> Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> ASK Database Management
> www.askdbmgt.com
>
> Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
>
> Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am
> associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
> those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
> entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:55 PM, LARRY SORENSEN <lsorensen25@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > Solaris 10
> > IDS 11.50.FC6
> >
> > Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server while
> > replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to "Standard"
> > mode to
> > back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able to change
> > it
> > back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change
> > something to
> > make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the
> > downtime, so
> > that should not be an issue.)
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
*******************************************************************************
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --089e01176cad6b2458051f56cb27
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
I believe that's a duplicate. Note that RSS can do external backups. That's
'level 0' only... but that's an option...
On Sep 9, 2015 10:32 PM, "LARRY SORENSEN" <lsorensen25@msn.com> wrote:
> I have created an RFE: #76777 - "Enable HDR Secondary to perform
> archives". I
> encourage all interested parties to log in and vote for this enhancement.
>
> Larry
>
> > To: ids@iiug.org
> > From: art.kagel@gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: HDR Secondary - backup question [35772]
> > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:02:05 -0400
> >
> > You cannot change a server from "standard" mode to "secondary" or "RSS"
> > mode. If you convert the secondary to standard so you can archive it, you
> > will have to restore the secondary from the actual primary in order to
> > reestablish it as a secondary.
> >
> > I suggest that you go to the IBM RFE (Request For Enhancement) site and
> > request an enhancement to be able to place a secondary into a mode that
> > would allow an archive to be taken from it without breaking replication.
> > The site is:
> >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=changeRequestLanding
> >
> > Once you've done that you can post the RFE number here and ask us to vote
> > for your request!
> >
> > Art
> >
> > Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> > ASK Database Management
> > www.askdbmgt.com
> >
> > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> >
> > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> > and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I
> am
> > associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
> > those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
> > entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:55 PM, LARRY SORENSEN <lsorensen25@msn.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Solaris 10
> > > IDS 11.50.FC6
> > >
> > > Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server while
> > > replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to "Standard"
> > > mode to
> > > back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able to
> change
> > > it
> > > back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change
> > > something to
> > > make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the
> > > downtime, so
> > > that should not be an issue.)
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --089e01176cad6b2458051f56cb27
> >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
>
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--001a113ff69cea2ceb051f5744e9
Yes, but an external back up is a file/device level backup. What is wanted
is the ability to use ontape/onbar.
I know that Madison was against this, but frankly Madison's retired so we
get a new prospective on the problem. Perhaps someone else will see a way
to do this.
Art
Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
ASK Database Management
www.askdbmgt.com
Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am
associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I believe that's a duplicate. Note that RSS can do external backups. That's
> 'level 0' only... but that's an option...
> On Sep 9, 2015 10:32 PM, "LARRY SORENSEN" <lsorensen25@msn.com> wrote:
>
> > I have created an RFE: #76777 - "Enable HDR Secondary to perform
> > archives". I
> > encourage all interested parties to log in and vote for this enhancement.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > From: art.kagel@gmail.com
> > > Subject: Re: HDR Secondary - backup question [35772]
> > > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:02:05 -0400
> > >
> > > You cannot change a server from "standard" mode to "secondary" or "RSS"
> > > mode. If you convert the secondary to standard so you can archive it,
> you
> > > will have to restore the secondary from the actual primary in order to
> > > reestablish it as a secondary.
> > >
> > > I suggest that you go to the IBM RFE (Request For Enhancement) site and
> > > request an enhancement to be able to place a secondary into a mode that
> > > would allow an archive to be taken from it without breaking
> replication.
> > > The site is:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=changeRequestLanding
> > >
> > > Once you've done that you can post the RFE number here and ask us to
> vote
> > > for your request!
> > >
> > > Art
> > >
> > > Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> > > ASK Database Management
> > > www.askdbmgt.com
> > >
> > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > >
> > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> opinions
> > > and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I
> > am
> > > associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
> > > those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
> > > entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:55 PM, LARRY SORENSEN <lsorensen25@msn.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Solaris 10
> > > > IDS 11.50.FC6
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server while
> > > > replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to
> "Standard"
> > > > mode to
> > > > back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able to
> > change
> > > > it
> > > > back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change
> > > > something to
> > > > make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the
> > > > downtime, so
> > > > that should not be an issue.)
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --089e01176cad6b2458051f56cb27
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --001a113ff69cea2ceb051f5744e9
>
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--089e01161cc82182da051f57acbd
I believe the fundamental issue is the fact that the backup needs to write
data (or a lot of metadata)... I don't see an alternative without changing
radically the page format... Which cannot be done lightly. Also note that
there are already a few reasons to do only level zeros.... so maybe if this
is assumed as a limitation... an onbar backup that doesn't change the
timestamps...
Also consider that there are other architects much more involded in the BAR
policies which are still active and maybe they can share more insights on
this.... ;)
On Sep 9, 2015 11:05 PM, "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, but an external back up is a file/device level backup. What is wanted
> is the ability to use ontape/onbar.
>
> I know that Madison was against this, but frankly Madison's retired so we
> get a new prospective on the problem. Perhaps someone else will see a way
> to do this.
>
> Art
>
> Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> ASK Database Management
> www.askdbmgt.com
>
> Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
>
> Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I am
> associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
> those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
> entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I believe that's a duplicate. Note that RSS can do external backups.
> That's
> > 'level 0' only... but that's an option...
> > On Sep 9, 2015 10:32 PM, "LARRY SORENSEN" <lsorensen25@msn.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I have created an RFE: #76777 - "Enable HDR Secondary to perform
> > > archives". I
> > > encourage all interested parties to log in and vote for this
> enhancement.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > From: art.kagel@gmail.com
> > > > Subject: Re: HDR Secondary - backup question [35772]
> > > > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:02:05 -0400
> > > >
> > > > You cannot change a server from "standard" mode to "secondary" or
> "RSS"
> > > > mode. If you convert the secondary to standard so you can archive it,
> > you
> > > > will have to restore the secondary from the actual primary in order
> to
> > > > reestablish it as a secondary.
> > > >
> > > > I suggest that you go to the IBM RFE (Request For Enhancement) site
> and
> > > > request an enhancement to be able to place a secondary into a mode
> that
> > > > would allow an archive to be taken from it without breaking
> > replication.
> > > > The site is:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=changeRequestLanding
> > > >
> > > > Once you've done that you can post the RFE number here and ask us to
> > vote
> > > > for your request!
> > > >
> > > > Art
> > > >
> > > > Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> > > > ASK Database Management
> > > > www.askdbmgt.com
> > > >
> > > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > > >
> > > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> > opinions
> > > > and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with
> which I
> > > am
> > > > associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
> > > > those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
> > > > entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities
> themselves.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:55 PM, LARRY SORENSEN <lsorensen25@msn.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Solaris 10
> > > > > IDS 11.50.FC6
> > > > >
> > > > > Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server
> while
> > > > > replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to
> > "Standard"
> > > > > mode to
> > > > > back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able to
> > > change
> > > > > it
> > > > > back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change
> > > > > something to
> > > > > make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the
> > > > > downtime, so
> > > > > that should not be an issue.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > >
> > > > > Larry
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --089e01176cad6b2458051f56cb27
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --001a113ff69cea2ceb051f5744e9
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> >
> >
>
> --089e01161cc82182da051f57acbd
>
>
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
>
>
--001a11c31f6ea4ff4f051f57c955
Actually I was forggeting something important (and I assume I tend to
ignore some of the complexity involved in implementing new features...).
We already have a way to assume we can only do L0's, and that means we
don't change the page timestamps (AFAIK).
It's by using IFX_BAR_USE_DEDUP which was introduce to improve the
usability of de-duplication features in the storage managers.
I'd say it would be possible to implement "normal" backups (in the sense of
using the usual tools) on secondary servers, if this is set.
Naturally some information needs to be written (metadata of what/when
backup was run) but assuming the primary was online that shouldn't be a big
deal.
Again, even in my dreams, this would only work if we assume L0's only....
Regards.
On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I believe the fundamental issue is the fact that the backup needs to write
> data (or a lot of metadata)... I don't see an alternative without changing
> radically the page format... Which cannot be done lightly. Also note that
> there are already a few reasons to do only level zeros.... so maybe if this
> is assumed as a limitation... an onbar backup that doesn't change the
> timestamps...
> Also consider that there are other architects much more involded in the BAR
> policies which are still active and maybe they can share more insights on
> this.... ;)
> On Sep 9, 2015 11:05 PM, "Art Kagel" <art.kagel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes, but an external back up is a file/device level backup. What is
> wanted
> > is the ability to use ontape/onbar.
> >
> > I know that Madison was against this, but frankly Madison's retired so we
> > get a new prospective on the problem. Perhaps someone else will see a way
> > to do this.
> >
> > Art
> >
> > Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> > ASK Database Management
> > www.askdbmgt.com
> >
> > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> >
> > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own opinions
> > and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with which I
> am
> > associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither do
> > those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with any
> > entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities themselves.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 4:36 PM, Fernando Nunes <domusonline@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I believe that's a duplicate. Note that RSS can do external backups.
> > That's
> > > 'level 0' only... but that's an option...
> > > On Sep 9, 2015 10:32 PM, "LARRY SORENSEN" <lsorensen25@msn.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have created an RFE: #76777 - "Enable HDR Secondary to perform
> > > > archives". I
> > > > encourage all interested parties to log in and vote for this
> > enhancement.
> > > >
> > > > Larry
> > > >
> > > > > To: ids@iiug.org
> > > > > From: art.kagel@gmail.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: HDR Secondary - backup question [35772]
> > > > > Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 17:02:05 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > > You cannot change a server from "standard" mode to "secondary" or
> > "RSS"
> > > > > mode. If you convert the secondary to standard so you can archive
> it,
> > > you
> > > > > will have to restore the secondary from the actual primary in order
> > to
> > > > > reestablish it as a secondary.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suggest that you go to the IBM RFE (Request For Enhancement) site
> > and
> > > > > request an enhancement to be able to place a secondary into a mode
> > that
> > > > > would allow an archive to be taken from it without breaking
> > > replication.
> > > > > The site is:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/rfe/execute?use_case=changeRequestLanding
> > > > >
> > > > > Once you've done that you can post the RFE number here and ask us
> to
> > > vote
> > > > > for your request!
> > > > >
> > > > > Art
> > > > >
> > > > > Art S. Kagel, President and Principal Consultant
> > > > > ASK Database Management
> > > > > www.askdbmgt.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Blog: http://informix-myview.blogspot.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > Disclaimer: Please keep in mind that my own opinions are my own
> > > opinions
> > > > > and do not reflect on the IIUG, nor any other organization with
> > which I
> > > > am
> > > > > associated either explicitly, implicitly, or by inference. Neither
> do
> > > > > those opinions reflect those of other individuals affiliated with
> any
> > > > > entity with which I am affiliated nor those of the entities
> > themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 3:55 PM, LARRY SORENSEN <
> lsorensen25@msn.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Solaris 10
> > > > > > IDS 11.50.FC6
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is it possible to take an "ontape" backup of a secondary server
> > while
> > > > > > replicating, or do I need to change the secondary server to
> > > "Standard"
> > > > > > mode to
> > > > > > back it up? If I have to change it to "standard", will I be able
> to
> > > > change
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > back to secondary without reloading it; or will the backup change
> > > > > > something to
> > > > > > make it inconsistent? (There are plenty of logs to accomodate the
> > > > > > downtime, so
> > > > > > that should not be an issue.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Larry
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion
> forum.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --089e01176cad6b2458051f56cb27
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --001a113ff69cea2ceb051f5744e9
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
*******************************************************************************
> > > Forum Note: Use "Reply" to post a response in the discussion forum.
> > >
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