Where The Fuck is the Informix Developer Edition V11 Download?

Maybe I'm dense but I cannot figure out how to download the fucking informix developers edition v11. Where the fuck is it? Is it so hard to just put a fucking link to get it? I've already been to http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/developer/ and having tried every link on this page it does not point to a download. Anybody got a link that points to the download? There appears to be no direct way to get it, nothing but links that point to other places and other products. IBM man you are one fucked up company! Cheers!

"InDeep" <indeep@indeep.com> wrote in message news:40P6j.13860$s12.8886@fe81.usenetserver.com... > Maybe I'm dense but I cannot figure out how to download the fucking > informix developers edition v11. Where the fuck is > it? Is it so hard to just put a fucking link to get it? > > I've already been to > http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/developer/ and having > tried every link on this > page it does not point to a download. Down the left-hand side and near the top there is a set of links in various shades of blue. Click on "Trials and Demos"; this takes you to a dedicated downloads page. In the middle of 3 blocks of available downloads, fifth one down, is the IDS Developers' Edition. This link takes you to a "Trial: Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise and Developer Edition V11" page. There's a "Try" tab on this page that takes you to the downloads. One thing that may enrage you further though is that, despite the name "Trial: Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise and Developer Edition V11" ..... all the available downloads seem to be for v10!! begin 666 c.gif K1TE&.#EA`0`!`(#_`,# P ```"'Y! $`````+ `````!``$```("1 $`.P`` ` end

"Neil Truby" <neil.truby@ardenta.com> wrote in message news:5s1tsvF161cj2U1@mid.individual.net... > "InDeep" <indeep@indeep.com> wrote in message > news:40P6j.13860$s12.8886@fe81.usenetserver.com... >> Maybe I'm dense but I cannot figure out how to download the fucking >> informix developers edition v11. Where the fuck is >> it? Is it so hard to just put a fucking link to get it? >> >> I've already been to >> http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/developer/ and having >> tried every link on this >> page it does not point to a download. > > Down the left-hand side and near the top there is a set of links in > various shades of blue. Click on "Trials and Demos"; this takes you to a > dedicated downloads page. In the middle of 3 blocks of available > downloads, fifth one down, is the IDS Developers' Edition. This link > takes you to a "Trial: Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise and Developer > Edition V11" page. There's a "Try" tab on this page that takes you to the > downloads. > > One thing that may enrage you further though is that, despite the name > "Trial: Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise and Developer Edition V11" > ..... all the available downloads seem to be for v10!! Actually, despite the fact that all the downloads listed are v10 it doesn't matter which one you select, and once you've jumped through a load more hoops (enter your IBM ID, answer some marketing questions), you are presented with a list of v10 and v11 files for download.

Neil Truby wrote: > "InDeep" <indeep@indeep.com> wrote in message > news:40P6j.13860$s12.8886@fe81.usenetserver.com... >> Maybe I'm dense but I cannot figure out how to download the fucking >> informix developers edition v11. Where the fuck is >> it? Is it so hard to just put a fucking link to get it? >> >> I've already been to >> http://www-306.ibm.com/software/data/informix/ids/developer/ and having >> tried every link on this >> page it does not point to a download. > > Down the left-hand side and near the top there is a set of links in various > shades of blue. Click on "Trials and Demos"; this takes you to a dedicated > downloads page. In the middle of 3 blocks of available downloads, fifth one > down, is the IDS Developers' Edition. This link takes you to a "Trial: > Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise and Developer Edition V11" page. There's > a "Try" tab on this page that takes you to the downloads. > > One thing that may enrage you further though is that, despite the name > "Trial: Informix Dynamic Server Enterprise and Developer Edition V11" ..... > all the available downloads seem to be for v10!! > > I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has even commented or tried to get this fixed. Is Informix cursed or what. Didn't even see any news or press releases either. What the fuck are the Informix marketing people doing inside IBM? Can't even get some press, that's pretty lame, what a bunch of slackers. For the money they get paid, I'd be really curious just what they actually do. IBM could really save some money if they fired those folks, because the net result would be the same!

> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has even > commented or > tried to get this fixed. Is Informix cursed or what. Didn't even see any > news or > press releases either. What the fuck are the Informix marketing people > doing inside > IBM? Can't even get some press, that's pretty lame, what a bunch of > slackers. For > the money they get paid, I'd be really curious just what they actually do. > IBM could > really save some money if they fired those folks, because the net result > would be the > same! You're confusing two issues. I absolutely share your frustration that Informix is not more widely publicised. And yes, the level of marketing activity has increased greatly in the past two years, but in the scale of things it's still peanuts. (I met quite a senior person from IBM UK, nothing to do with Informix or even the brand it's in, but he knows we sell a lot of Informix, and he commented how little Informix marketing you ever see. When I pointed out that "Cheetah" has been publicised far more than any Informix version previously under IBM he just laughed!) So yes, IBM strategically cannot bring itself really to publicise Informix, certainly not at the expense of DB2. You might think this is wrong; you may wonder why IBM continues to put all its weight behind a product which, no matter how much it may wish it wasn;t so, will forever be associated in the public's mind as "Mainframe", and which has so little "traction" outside the mainframe and AS/400 market. But as I learnt from my two-and-a-half-year stint on the Board of Directors of the IIUG, you aren't going to change it. I've met many of the advocates within IBM of Informix, including the Marketing people, and I can tell you that you're doing these people a great disservice. Some of the people who advocate Informix World Wide are as bright as a button, and hugely committed to Informix. If they are not generating the splash you wish, it's not because they are "slacking" fuck-wits: it's because they're just doing the very best they can do given the strategy set by people way, way, way above them.

InDeep wrote: > I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has even > commented or tried to get this fixed. Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is of so little interest no one really much cares. Making something available only to the existing customer base ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, no marketing questions, no hassles. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > InDeep wrote: > >> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has even >> commented or tried to get this fixed. > > Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is > of so little interest no one really much cares. > > Making something available only to the existing customer base > ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. > > This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary > competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, > no marketing questions, no hassles. Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial single prototype of any application. It can not be used for any other purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching the product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a single prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about the engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems rather restrictive to me.

Madison Pruet wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> InDeep wrote: >> >>> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has even >>> commented or tried to get this fixed. >> >> Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is >> of so little interest no one really much cares. >> >> Making something available only to the existing customer base >> ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. >> >> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, >> no marketing questions, no hassles. > > > Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down loaded > Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial single prototype > of any application. It can not be used for any other purposes. That > includes learning about the product, teaching the product to anyone > else, patching any prototype, etc. > > To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... > > "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited > license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a single > prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." > > Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about the > engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems rather > restrictive to me. XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or Amazon.com. That is substantially different from limiting the download to only your current customer base. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

DA Morgan wrote: > Madison Pruet wrote: >> DA Morgan wrote: >>> InDeep wrote: >>> >>>> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has >>>> even commented or tried to get this fixed. >>> >>> Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is >>> of so little interest no one really much cares. >>> >>> Making something available only to the existing customer base >>> ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. >>> >>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, >>> no marketing questions, no hassles. >> >> >> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down >> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial single >> prototype of any application. It can not be used for any other >> purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching the >> product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. >> >> To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... >> >> "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited >> license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a single >> prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." >> >> Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about the >> engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems rather >> restrictive to me. > > XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one > wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined > prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or > Amazon.com. Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the XE License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because it states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load apply to the XE as well. Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be used by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements of the prototype is allowed. > > That is substantially different from limiting the download to only > your current customer base. Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You do have to register, but you do not have to be a customer.

Madison Pruet wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Madison Pruet wrote: >>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>> InDeep wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has >>>>> even commented or tried to get this fixed. >>>> >>>> Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is >>>> of so little interest no one really much cares. >>>> >>>> Making something available only to the existing customer base >>>> ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. >>>> >>>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >>>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, >>>> no marketing questions, no hassles. >>> >>> >>> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down >>> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial single >>> prototype of any application. It can not be used for any other >>> purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching the >>> product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. >>> >>> To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... >>> >>> "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited >>> license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a >>> single prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." >>> >>> Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about >>> the engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems >>> rather restrictive to me. >> >> XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one >> wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined >> prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or >> Amazon.com. > > Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle > Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle > Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above > quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the XE > License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because it > states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load apply to > the XE as well. > > Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single > prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a > system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be used > by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements of the > prototype is allowed. > >> >> That is substantially different from limiting the download to only >> your current customer base. > > Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You do > have to register, but you do not have to be a customer. > > It is curious that Informix can be thought of as a peer with Oracle yet, I see no market buzz in the Linux world for Informix like you do for Oracle. In fact, Oracle basically took the Linux market away from anything IBM, and has even tried to say that they were first on Linux, which they clearly were not. What _is_ possible from a marketing perspective for Informix is a huge opportunity that has basically gone wasted. It's almost criminally negligent, but forgivable knowing the retards running the Marketing Dept for Informix. Kind of easy to look the other way when you understand that the product suffers from its own family more than the neighbors. There is a big opportunity right now to make Informix more well known, and the most amazing part of it is that it costs IBM little if anything to make right. Get the developer program going--really going--and make the enterprise version available to developers either for free, or at reduced cost, to allow them to develop with the entire product, not something pared down to appease critics. You will get a bigger harvest, and some market momentum. Get some books out there to help people understand the product, and for crying out loud, pass out some marketing freebies to reward people. A little can go a long way.

Madison Pruet wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Madison Pruet wrote: >>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>> InDeep wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has >>>>> even commented or tried to get this fixed. >>>> >>>> Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is >>>> of so little interest no one really much cares. >>>> >>>> Making something available only to the existing customer base >>>> ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. >>>> >>>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >>>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, >>>> no marketing questions, no hassles. >>> >>> >>> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down >>> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial single >>> prototype of any application. It can not be used for any other >>> purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching the >>> product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. >>> >>> To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... >>> >>> "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited >>> license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a >>> single prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." >>> >>> Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about >>> the engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems >>> rather restrictive to me. >> >> XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one >> wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined >> prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or >> Amazon.com. > > Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle > Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle > Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above > quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the XE > License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because it > states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load apply to > the XE as well. > > Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single > prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a > system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be used > by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements of the > prototype is allowed. > >> >> That is substantially different from limiting the download to only >> your current customer base. > > Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You do > have to register, but you do not have to be a customer. I don't know what you're reading but here's the reality and the link: http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/xe/htdocs/102xelinsoft.html License Rights We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited license to use the programs for: (a) purposes of developing, prototyping and running your applications for your own internal data processing operations; Meaning you can run it in production. (b) you may also distribute the programs with your applications; Self explanatory (c) you may use the programs to provide third party demonstrations and training; Again self-explanatory and d) you may copy and distribute the programs to your licensees provided that each such licensee agrees to the terms of this Agreement. Again no ambiguity here either. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

"InDeep" <indeep@indeep.com> wrote in message news:Ck57j.4925$iD5.3228@fe77.usenetserver.com... > It is curious that Informix can be thought of as a peer with Oracle > yet, I see no market buzz in the Linux world for Informix like you do > for Oracle. In fact, Oracle basically took the Linux market away from > anything IBM, and has even tried to say that they were first on Linux, > which they clearly were not. What _is_ possible from a marketing > perspective for Informix is a huge opportunity that has basically gone > wasted. It's almost criminally negligent, but forgivable knowing the > retards running the Marketing Dept for Informix. Kind of easy to look > the other way when you understand that the product suffers from its > own family more than the neighbors. As per my previous post, your criticism is misplaced. The people who run Marketing for Informix are *not* retards. They are constrained in what they can do by an over-riding strategy within IBM about the extent to which they can promote Informix. You seem to be suggesting that they should ignore this. But, how many of us are sufficiently profesionally and financially independent that we can just ignore the instructions of our bosses?

On Dec 10, 6:50 am, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: > Madison Pruet wrote: > > DA Morgan wrote: > >> Madison Pruet wrote: > >>> DA Morgan wrote: > >>>> InDeep wrote: > > >>>>> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has > >>>>> even commented or tried to get this fixed. > > >>>> Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is > >>>> of so little interest no one really much cares. > > >>>> Making something available only to the existing customer base > >>>> ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. > > >>>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary > >>>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, > >>>> no marketing questions, no hassles. > > >>> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down > >>> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial single > >>> prototype of any application. It can not be used for any other > >>> purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching the > >>> product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. > > >>> To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... > > >>> "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited > >>> license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a > >>> single prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." > > >>> Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about > >>> the engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems > >>> rather restrictive to me. > > >> XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one > >> wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined > >> prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or > >> Amazon.com. > > > Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle > > Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle > > Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above > > quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the XE > > License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because it > > states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load apply to > > the XE as well. > > > Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single > > prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a > > system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be used > > by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements of the > > prototype is allowed. > > >> That is substantially different from limiting the download to only > >> your current customer base. > > > Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You do > > have to register, but you do not have to be a customer. > > It is curious that Informix can be thought of as a peer with Oracle > yet, I see no market buzz in the Linux world for Informix like you do > for Oracle. In fact, Oracle basically took the Linux market away from > anything IBM, and has even tried to say that they were first on Linux, > which they clearly were not. What _is_ possible from a marketing > perspective for Informix is a huge opportunity that has basically gone > wasted. It's almost criminally negligent, but forgivable knowing the > retards running the Marketing Dept for Informix. Kind of easy to look > the other way when you understand that the product suffers from its > own family more than the neighbors. There is a big opportunity right > now to make Informix more well known, and the most amazing part of it > is that it costs IBM little if anything to make right. Get the developer > program going--really going--and make the enterprise version available > to developers either for free, or at reduced cost, to allow them to > develop with the entire product, not something pared down to appease > critics. You will get a bigger harvest, and some market momentum. Get > some books out there to help people understand the product, and for crying > out loud, pass out some marketing freebies to reward people. A little > can go a long way.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - If you send me a email with your contact details and information pertaining to your companies background I will see to it that the people in IBM responsible for regeneration of Informix in the partner community will contact you to discuss with you steps that IBM is taking to address this. I will also ensure that this is an opportunity for you to share your thoughts with them on steps that IBM can take to further make this venture successful. Did you attend IOD and heard first hand from some of the new business partners IBM is attracting from Oracle to IDS?

Neil Truby wrote: > You seem to be suggesting that they should ignore this. But, how many of us > are sufficiently profesionally and financially independent that we can just > ignore the instructions of our bosses? Actually I wish DB2 had the same marketing guys/gals as IDS. Lots of Cheetah T-Shirts. No Viper 2 T-Shirts... IDS Marketing is doing a lot of things that, by common IBM wisdom, are next to impossible. It's pretty tough to build grassroots marketing campaign if the global direction is: "What makes you special?" Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

DA Morgan wrote: > Madison Pruet wrote: >> DA Morgan wrote: >>> Madison Pruet wrote: >>>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>>> InDeep wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'm not enraged, just baffled beyond belief that nobody else has >>>>>> even commented or tried to get this fixed. >>>>> >>>>> Not intending to be the gadfly but I think rather obviously because is >>>>> of so little interest no one really much cares. >>>>> >>>>> Making something available only to the existing customer base >>>>> ("enter your IBM ID") is not the way to expand marketshare. >>>>> >>>>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >>>>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, >>>>> no marketing questions, no hassles. >>>> >>>> >>>> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down >>>> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial >>>> single prototype of any application. It can not be used for any >>>> other purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching >>>> the product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. >>>> >>>> To quote the license agreement that Oracle uses for their download... >>>> >>>> "LICENSE RIGHTS We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited >>>> license to use the program only for the purpose of developing a >>>> single prototype of your application, and not for any other purpose." >>>> >>>> Looks like you can't even use the downloaded engine to learn about >>>> the engine without breaking the license that was agreed to. Seems >>>> rather restrictive to me. >>> >>> XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one >>> wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined >>> prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or >>> Amazon.com. >> >> Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle >> Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle >> Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above >> quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the XE >> License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because it >> states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load apply >> to the XE as well. >> >> Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single >> prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a >> system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be used >> by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements of the >> prototype is allowed. >> >>> >>> That is substantially different from limiting the download to only >>> your current customer base. >> >> Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You do >> have to register, but you do not have to be a customer. > > I don't know what you're reading but here's the reality and the link: > http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/xe/htdocs/102xelinsoft.html > > > License Rights > We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited license to use the > programs for: (a) purposes of developing, prototyping and running your > applications for your own internal data processing operations; > > Meaning you can run it in production. > > (b) you may also distribute the programs with your applications; > > Self explanatory > > (c) you may use the programs to provide third party demonstrations and > training; > > Again self-explanatory > > and d) you may copy and distribute the programs to your licensees > provided that each such licensee agrees to the terms of this Agreement. > > Again no ambiguity here either. Yes - this is the "OTN License Agreement for Oracle Database Express Edition", and what you are saying would be true if the license was totally self contained. It is not. If you read the entire license and not just a few lines, then you would see... Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms. The OTN License Agreement terms also apply to all updates you receive under your Technology Track subscription. 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Madison Pruet wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Madison Pruet wrote: >>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>> Madison Pruet wrote: >>>>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>>>> InDeep wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >>>>>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID required, >>>>>> no marketing questions, no hassles. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down >>>>> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial >>>>> single prototype of any application. It can not be used for any >>>>> other purposes. That includes learning about the product, teaching >>>>> the product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. >>>>> >>>> >>>> XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one >>>> wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined >>>> prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or >>>> Amazon.com. >>> >>> Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle >>> Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle >>> Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above >>> quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the >>> XE License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because it >>> states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load apply >>> to the XE as well. >>> >>> Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single >>> prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a >>> system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be >>> used by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements >>> of the prototype is allowed. >>> >>>> >>>> That is substantially different from limiting the download to only >>>> your current customer base. >>> >>> Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You >>> do have to register, but you do not have to be a customer. >> >> I don't know what you're reading but here's the reality and the link: >> http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/xe/htdocs/102xelinsoft.html >> >> >> License Rights >> We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited license to use >> the programs for: (a) purposes of developing, prototyping and running >> your applications for your own internal data processing operations; >> >> Meaning you can run it in production. >> >> (b) you may also distribute the programs with your applications; >> >> Self explanatory >> >> (c) you may use the programs to provide third party demonstrations and >> training; >> >> Again self-explanatory >> >> and d) you may copy and distribute the programs to your licensees >> provided that each such licensee agrees to the terms of this Agreement. >> >> Again no ambiguity here either. > > Yes - this is the "OTN License Agreement for Oracle Database Express > Edition", and what you are saying would be true if the license was > totally self contained. It is not. > > If you read the entire license and not just a few lines, then you would > see... > > > Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") License > Agreement terms. The OTN License Agreement terms also apply to all > updates you receive under your Technology Track subscription. > > And Oracle Technology Network License Agreement is > Madison - your are reading this wrong. I wrote the license for XE and it does not 'inherit' restrictions from any other license. You can use XE freely for whatever you want, as long as you stay within the limits of the product - 4 GB of data etc. You can definitely deploy XE in production without charge. You can also distribute it, and teach with it, etc etc.

Mark Townsend wrote: > Madison Pruet wrote: >> DA Morgan wrote: >>> Madison Pruet wrote: >>>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>>> Madison Pruet wrote: >>>>>> DA Morgan wrote: >>>>>>> InDeep wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This becomes even more poignant when one considers that the primary >>>>>>> competitor allows anyone to download theirs for free. No ID >>>>>>> required, >>>>>>> no marketing questions, no hassles. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Well maybe. But according to the license agreement for the down >>>>>> loaded Oracle server, it can only be used to create an initial >>>>>> single prototype of any application. It can not be used for any >>>>>> other purposes. That includes learning about the product, >>>>>> teaching the product to anyone else, patching any prototype, etc. >>>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> XE is available for free and can be put to use commercially if one >>>>> wishes. And the prototype to which you refer is a user defined >>>>> prototype. You might choose, if you wish, to prototype eBay or >>>>> Amazon.com. >>>> >>>> Well - not totally true. The OTN Developer License Terms for Oracle >>>> Database Express Edition states.. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle >>>> Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." and the above >>>> quote is from that document. So the way the license is worded, the >>>> XE License is more restrictive than the enterprise license because >>>> it states that all of the restrictions of the enterprise down load >>>> apply to the XE as well. >>>> >>>> Also not true about the prototype. By wording it to state "single >>>> prototype of an application" that means that it does not apply to a >>>> system, only to an application. Also, it is only allowable to be >>>> used by a single prototype, which legally means that no refinements >>>> of the prototype is allowed. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> That is substantially different from limiting the download to only >>>>> your current customer base. >>>> >>>> Again not true. You do not have to be a customer to download. You >>>> do have to register, but you do not have to be a customer. >>> >>> I don't know what you're reading but here's the reality and the link: >>> http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/xe/htdocs/102xelinsoft.html >>> >>> >>> License Rights >>> We grant you a nonexclusive, nontransferable limited license to use >>> the programs for: (a) purposes of developing, prototyping and running >>> your applications for your own internal data processing operations; >>> >>> Meaning you can run it in production. >>> >>> (b) you may also distribute the programs with your applications; >>> >>> Self explanatory >>> >>> (c) you may use the programs to provide third party demonstrations >>> and training; >>> >>> Again self-explanatory >>> >>> and d) you may copy and distribute the programs to your licensees >>> provided that each such licensee agrees to the terms of this Agreement. >>> >>> Again no ambiguity here either. >> >> Yes - this is the "OTN License Agreement for Oracle Database Express >> Edition", and what you are saying would be true if the license was >> totally self contained. It is not. >> >> If you read the entire license and not just a few lines, then you >> would see... >> >> >> Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") License >> Agreement terms. The OTN License Agreement terms also apply to all >> updates you receive under your Technology Track subscription. >> >> And Oracle Technology Network License Agreement is >> > > Madison - your are reading this wrong. I wrote the license for XE and it > does not 'inherit' restrictions from any other license. You can use XE > freely for whatever you want, as long as you stay within the limits of > the product - 4 GB of data etc. You can definitely deploy XE in > production without charge. You can also distribute it, and teach with > it, etc etc. Thank you, Mark, for clearing up the apparent misunderstanding. -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Neil Truby wrote: > "InDeep" <indeep@indeep.com> wrote in message > news:Ck57j.4925$iD5.3228@fe77.usenetserver.com... > >> It is curious that Informix can be thought of as a peer with Oracle >> yet, I see no market buzz in the Linux world for Informix like you do >> for Oracle. In fact, Oracle basically took the Linux market away from >> anything IBM, and has even tried to say that they were first on Linux, >> which they clearly were not. What _is_ possible from a marketing >> perspective for Informix is a huge opportunity that has basically gone >> wasted. It's almost criminally negligent, but forgivable knowing the >> retards running the Marketing Dept for Informix. Kind of easy to look >> the other way when you understand that the product suffers from its >> own family more than the neighbors. > > As per my previous post, your criticism is misplaced. The people who run > Marketing for Informix are *not* retards. They are constrained in what they > can do by an over-riding strategy within IBM about the extent to which they > can promote Informix. > > You seem to be suggesting that they should ignore this. But, how many of us > are sufficiently profesionally and financially independent that we can just > ignore the instructions of our bosses? > > As per my previous posts, if it walks and talks like a duck, then it must be a duck. In the case of Informix, it's not walking or talking, or if at all, to no appreciable degree. This is a direct result of the action or inaction of the Marketing Department. The technical side of the house has delivered a product, only to be left wanting promotion and a reasonable attempt to build some market share. I certainly appreciate you wanting to defend Informix, but let's separate the product from the message. The product needs a message, not some luke warm fluff you have to dig for. A real marketing campaign has a message that is put in the market to elicit sales. Until that bare minimum has been done, you don't have a marketing campaign. To call the present effort anything approximating a marketing campaign is complete and utter fantasy. In the recent past, it has been a controlled release targeted at a few shops, and to hell with the rest. Certainly within the rights of IBM to do it this way, but it's not really marketing anything other than a slight push to the willing. To answer your question, I completely understand your pain, and your needing to sacrifice your values to protect yourself. What really needs to happen is for enough people to push the message to IBM to get a real Marketing program going for Informix, not this bland watered down nothing. There should be a real message that transcends the database market, and that can be done with a solid, REAL Developer Program. Applications drive database sales, ask Oracle or Microsoft... -ID-

>> To answer your question, I completely understand your pain, and your >> needing > to sacrifice your values to protect yourself. a. I don't work for IBM, let alone IBM marketing b. (For the third and last time) Your point is right, Informix is not advertised and promoted to any significant degree. But you are wrong to blame Informix Marketing. The fault lies in IBM's corporate strategy towards databases, not with the individuals charged with providing what little marketing *is* permitted.

DA Morgan wrote: > Mark Townsend wrote: >> Madison - your are reading this wrong. I wrote the license for XE and >> it does not 'inherit' restrictions from any other license. You can use >> XE freely for whatever you want, as long as you stay within the limits >> of the product - 4 GB of data etc. You can definitely deploy XE in >> production without charge. You can also distribute it, and teach with >> it, etc etc. > > Thank you, Mark, for clearing up the apparent misunderstanding. Mark, are you speaking as an Oracle spokesperson here? Just curious. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

On Dec 11, 6:42 am, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: > Neil Truby wrote: > > "InDeep" <ind...@indeep.com> wrote in message > >news:Ck57j.4925$iD5.3228@fe77.usenetserver.com... > > >> It is curious that Informix can be thought of as a peer with Oracle > >> yet, I see no market buzz in the Linux world for Informix like you do > >> for Oracle. In fact, Oracle basically took the Linux market away from > >> anything IBM, and has even tried to say that they were first on Linux, > >> which they clearly were not. What _is_ possible from a marketing > >> perspective for Informix is a huge opportunity that has basically gone > >> wasted. It's almost criminally negligent, but forgivable knowing the > >> retards running the Marketing Dept for Informix. Kind of easy to look > >> the other way when you understand that the product suffers from its > >> own family more than the neighbors. > > > As per my previous post, your criticism is misplaced. The people who run > > Marketing for Informix are *not* retards. They are constrained in what they > > can do by an over-riding strategy within IBM about the extent to which they > > can promote Informix. > > > You seem to be suggesting that they should ignore this. But, how many of us > > are sufficiently profesionally and financially independent that we can just > > ignore the instructions of our bosses? > > As per my previous posts, if it walks and talks like a duck, then it must be > a duck. In the case of Informix, it's not walking or talking, or if at all, > to no appreciable degree. This is a direct result of the action or inaction > of the Marketing Department. The technical side of the house has delivered > a product, only to be left wanting promotion and a reasonable attempt to build > some market share. I certainly appreciate you wanting to defend Informix, but > let's separate the product from the message. The product needs a message, not > some luke warm fluff you have to dig for. A real marketing campaign has a > message that is put in the market to elicit sales. Until that bare minimum > has been done, you don't have a marketing campaign. To call the present effort > anything approximating a marketing campaign is complete and utter fantasy. In > the recent past, it has been a controlled release targeted at a few shops, and > to hell with the rest. Certainly within the rights of IBM to do it this way, > but it's not really marketing anything other than a slight push to the willing. > > To answer your question, I completely understand your pain, and your needing > to sacrifice your values to protect yourself. What really needs to happen is > for enough people to push the message to IBM to get a real Marketing program > going for Informix, not this bland watered down nothing. There should be a real > message that transcends the database market, and that can be done with a solid, > REAL Developer Program. Applications drive database sales, ask Oracle or > Microsoft... > > -ID-- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - As I said, if you send me an email with your details I will organise a call for you with the marketing people responsible in order that you can share your views directly

Mark Townsend wrote: > Madison Pruet wrote: >> DA Morgan wrote: >>> Madison Pruet wrote: >> >> Yes - this is the "OTN License Agreement for Oracle Database Express >> Edition", and what you are saying would be true if the license was >> totally self contained. It is not. >> >> If you read the entire license and not just a few lines, then you >> would see... >> >> >> Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") License >> Agreement terms. The OTN License Agreement terms also apply to all >> updates you receive under your Technology Track subscription. >> >> And Oracle Technology Network License Agreement is >> > > Madison - your are reading this wrong. I wrote the license for XE and it > does not 'inherit' restrictions from any other license. You can use XE > freely for whatever you want, as long as you stay within the limits of > the product - 4 GB of data etc. You can definitely deploy XE in > production without charge. You can also distribute it, and teach with > it, etc etc. Mark - I appreciate your response, and that may be what you intended. However, the license agreement which is displayed on the download page for the express edition clearly states otherwise. "Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") License Agreement terms." It does not state "Note: You are bound by the Oracle Technology Network ("OTN") Developer License Terms for Oracle Database Express Edition." Also it does not link to where the Oracle Technology Network License Agreement is located. The only place where the title of "Oracle Technology Network License" is mentioned is not on the download page for the express edition of "http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/xe/htdocs/102xelinsoft.html";, but on the popup license found on the enterprise download page of http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html. Perhaps that is what you meant, but that is not what the license agreement for the Express Edition states.

scottishpoet wrote: > > As I said, > > if you send me an email with your details I will organise a call for > you with the marketing people responsible in order that you can share > your views directly Thanks, I'll be in touch after the first of next year. I'm thinking of some _positive_ ideas that most likely will not get considered till after the start of the new year.

On Dec 11, 3:30 pm, InDeep <ind...@indeep.com> wrote: > scottishpoet wrote: > > > As I said, > > > if you send me an email with your details I will organise a call for > > you with the marketing people responsible in order that you can share > > your views directly > > Thanks, I'll be in touch after the first of next year. I'm thinking of > some _positive_ ideas that most likely will not get considered till after > the start of the new year. Great! In the meantime IBM marketing in the UK is working with business partners to produce some marketing collatoral ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/common/ssi/pm/ab/n/imc14003gben/IMC14003GBEN.PDF as well as http://www.informixcity.com/downloads/Nomad%20Case%20Study.pdf

Serge Rielau wrote: > DA Morgan wrote: >> Mark Townsend wrote: >>> Madison - your are reading this wrong. I wrote the license for XE and >>> it does not 'inherit' restrictions from any other license. You can >>> use XE freely for whatever you want, as long as you stay within the >>> limits of the product - 4 GB of data etc. You can definitely deploy >>> XE in production without charge. You can also distribute it, and >>> teach with it, etc etc. >> >> Thank you, Mark, for clearing up the apparent misunderstanding. > Mark, are you speaking as an Oracle spokesperson here? Just curious. > > Cheers > Serge Hmm - not sure where this one is going. Legal guard goes up. If you want to quote me somewhere, or have an official verification, then feel free to email me at my daytime persona and I will confirm what I have said above "officially". Or alternatively, post the question to the XE forum on OTN and I will respond in kind there as well.

Mark Townsend wrote: > Serge Rielau wrote: >> DA Morgan wrote: >>> Mark Townsend wrote: >>>> Madison - your are reading this wrong. I wrote the license for XE >>>> and it does not 'inherit' restrictions from any other license. You >>>> can use XE freely for whatever you want, as long as you stay within >>>> the limits of the product - 4 GB of data etc. You can definitely >>>> deploy XE in production without charge. You can also distribute it, >>>> and teach with it, etc etc. >>> >>> Thank you, Mark, for clearing up the apparent misunderstanding. >> Mark, are you speaking as an Oracle spokesperson here? Just curious. > Hmm - not sure where this one is going. Legal guard goes up. :-) I expected no different - and I don't blame you > If you want to quote me somewhere, or have an official verification, > then feel free to email me at my daytime persona Sensible. > and I will confirm what > I have said above "officially". Or alternatively, post the question to > the XE forum on OTN and I will respond in kind there as well. That would require accepting the OTN licence. No can do. Cheers Serge -- Serge Rielau DB2 Solutions Development IBM Toronto Lab

Serge Rielau wrote: >> and I will confirm what I have said above "officially". Or >> alternatively, post the question to the XE forum on OTN and I will >> respond in kind there as well. > That would require accepting the OTN licence. No can do. > > Cheers > Serge Send me the question Serge. <g> -- Daniel A. Morgan University of Washington damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)