Call me grumpy, but....
Not a technical problem at all: Obnoxio The Clown complains that comp.databases.informix seems to be getting more "RTFM" (lazy, manual-unread) questions and asks whether that signals new users or declining quality. Replies suggest reposting an updated FAQ, while Art Kagel and others urge keeping the group low-flame and helpful. Several posters defend newcomers, noting Informix manuals are often unclear, increasingly CD-only/hard to find, and that even Informix staff consult the newsgroup. It's a meta/etiquette discussion with no technical resolution.
Auto-generated by DrWatson from the posts below — may be imperfect; read the full thread.
Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a manual (ipse dixit). -- Bye now, Obnoxio <|:0) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
Geez, I wish you hadn't posted this... Please don't feed the trolls. > Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts > lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new > converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener > pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a > manual (ipse dixit). > > -- > Bye now, > Obnoxio > > <|:0) > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > -- # unrm / ksh: unrm: not found # man cpio Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
"Obnoxio The Clown" <obnoxio@hotmail.com> writes: > Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts > lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new > converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener > pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a > manual (ipse dixit). Maybe we could update the FAQ and post it here in regular intervals? -Then we could flame all non-RTFMing bastards! Thomas
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > > Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts > lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new > converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener > pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a > manual (ipse dixit). I just want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that this has been a low-flame NG for many years. One of the reasons I stayed when I found it was the pervasive attitude of helping our fellow sentients (OK and a few sub-sentients ;-) sorry I couldn't resist) and the lack of flaming that was and still is rampant on the NGs in general. RTFMs are still rare, though a growing and dismaying trend upwards, and usually accompanied by at least a volume reference if not section and page and almost always accompanied by some simple but direct advice. PLEASE let's arrest the current trend and return to just trying to get by ourselves and help each other do so. The Clown and others provide comic relief along with their advice, and that's fine. Recently some have taken the friendly banter between the oldtimers here as less than it is and begun to berate and flame. Even so, and even amoung the regulars, the frustration and grumpiness needs to be vented elsewhere, this is not the place for that nor for the nastiness. I'm here for two reasons, I learn something every week and I like to help. If you find these two reasons do not hold for you or that you are not deriving these benefits, then feel free to vanish without a trace. Art S. Kagel
"Art S. Kagel" wrote: > > Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > > > > Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts > > lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new > > converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener > > pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a > > manual (ipse dixit). > > I just want to take this opportunity to remind everyone that this has been > a low-flame NG for many years. One of the reasons I stayed when I found > it was the pervasive attitude of helping our fellow sentients (OK and a > few sub-sentients ;-) sorry I couldn't resist) and the lack of flaming > that was and still is rampant on the NGs in general. > Agreed. This newsgroup has allowed me to learn a lot about Informix. I've been able to pick up quite a bit of experience over the years, thanks to the understanding of many of the old-timers on the list. I've asked some not-so-smart questions, but the old-timers around here gve me the benefit of the doubt and helped me along the path. Even though there are some real newbies on the list, I try to remember that, at one point, that person was me. It helps me to be a bit understanding of those who are just starting out. I mean, at one point I couldn't spell DBA, and now I are one . . . . 8-) > RTFMs are still rare, though a growing and dismaying trend upwards, and > usually accompanied by at least a volume reference if not section and page > and almost always accompanied by some simple but direct advice. > That's not too bad, depending on the spirit of the answer. That's one of the problems of EMails and newsgroup postings in general; it's hard to determine a person's emotional state of mind in the answer. > PLEASE let's arrest the current trend and return to just trying to get by > ourselves and help each other do so. The Clown and others provide comic > relief along with their advice, and that's fine. Recently some have taken > the friendly banter between the oldtimers here as less than it is and begun > to berate and flame. Even so, and even amoung the regulars, the > frustration and grumpiness needs to be vented elsewhere, this is not the > place for that nor for the nastiness. > Agreed, although once again it depends on the attitude. I've noticed JL's concerns with DBI support. That posting was very well-done and in good taste. (Good to see that it was resolved, as well.) > I'm here for two reasons, I learn something every week and I like to help. > If you find these two reasons do not hold for you or that you are not > deriving these benefits, then feel free to vanish without a trace. > That should be the point of newsgroup discussions, especially here at cdi. I came aboard quite a bit ago and have learned a lot, not to mention sharing a feeling of camaraderie with other like-minded Informix DBAs from all over the globe. I'd like to think that I have something to offer others as well. -- John Carlson Informix DBA WHSmith USA #include std_disclaimer.h /* These are my opinions, not my company's opinion */
"Carlson@WHSmith" wrote: > <a lot of stuff including various quotes from other messages> > > That should be the point of newsgroup discussions, especially here at > cdi. I came aboard quite a bit ago and have learned a lot, not to > mention sharing a feeling of camaraderie with other like-minded Informix > DBAs from all over the globe. I'd like to think that I have something > to offer others as well. You certainly have Mr. Carlson, you have indeed. I'm in the process of trying to persuade me colleagues to organise an Informix upgrade (from 7.23) and to choose between 7.31 or 9.nn... your recent postings on that subject were really very helpful. As always, Art's advice was salutary. -- Andrew Pearson: "exactly what the web needs less of".
Obnoxio The Clown wrote: > > Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts > lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new > converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener > pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a > manual (ipse dixit). > I do not know about others but I have found the informix manuals to be not always the most helpful or the easiest to follow. I find the willingness of knowledgeable Informix users to offer help and advice to be a wonderful contrast to the normal patterns of big city life (grumpy clients, grumpy bosses, grumpy trigger-happy commuters). In my experience with computers, I have found them to be "folkloric" rather than logical: a bunch of smart people, having read all the manuals thoroughly, will be stumped until one of them says something like "I remember Bill one time told me to look at the ..." and the problem is solved immediately upon application of the fix passed on from one generation of tech wizards to the next. c.d.i is the oral history -- something the FMs will never quite capture.
I truly appreciate all of the help I've recieved from this newsgroup. What it comes to is this--if you are truly offended by what you think is a stupid question, you are not obligated to reply. There are many in the newsgroup who are able and would be more than happy to help with a simple answer. It doesn't bother me at all to answer a question if I feel that I can do so compitently--no matter how obvious the answer may seem to me, it was not always so.
OK, coming in as of those newbies, yes I have read those manuals... again and again. Informix does not always make the information clear to understand or easy to find. I spoke with someone at Informix the other day, they told me that if they can't find the answer, they use this newsgroup! Hmmm. What does that tell you? That they can't always find their answers either! So you're grumpy, that's ok, cause sometimes we're grumpy too . (This sounds like some kind of a support group) Robin
Obnoxio The Clown <obnoxio@hotmail.com> wrote: : Is it my imagination, or has there been an unseasonal plethora of RTFM posts : lately? Either it's good news, and Informix is winning a whole bunch of new : converts, or it's bad news and all the good folks are leaving for greener : pastures, to be replaced by a bunch of clowns who can't be arsed to read a : manual (ipse dixit). Obnoxio, In all fairness, it seems to be getting harder and harder even to FIND the FM. Much of the doc is now on CD and less and less is available in hard copy (without jumping though hoops to get it). I have a column on the http://www.devx.com website called "Ask the Informix Pro", and I've noticed that more and more of my questions are coming from application developers who are trying to access Informix thru ODBC or JDBC. These folks probably have no idea where to even look for the manuals. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Lumbley(joe@lumbley.com) author of: "INFORMIX DBA Survival Guide" The DBA Survival Guide, Second Edition covers NT, 7.X through 7.3, http://www.dbasurvivalguide.com Next book: "The Essential Guide to Databases" due in late 2000 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------