Re: Strw Poll : I-4GL for NT

David C. Harrison wrote: > > Mike Segel wrote: > > [snip] > > > I realize that this gets slightly off topic, but my point is > > chosing the right tool for the right job. If you look at the > > strengths of 4GL, and the few strengths of NT, you will see that > > it is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. > > I don't disagree with you on the subject of choosing the right tool for > the job - but in at least one case I would argue that 4GL for NT *is* > the right tool for the job. That job being to get an existing 4GL > application to NT quickly. > Sigh, Well, if you want to take this into a philosphical discussion, we can take it off line. (Mikey [at] Segel [Dot] Com) or IM_Gumby [at] hotmail.com. But the issue isn't taking an application to NT. The Informix database could reside anywhere. So if one choses to use NT as the Sever, that's his mistake. (Gee I wonder who supports Linux ;-) But to try and take the app to 4GL on NT, it wont work well, and even if 4GL did exist, you would still have enough problems that it would be easier to use a difference Client Server paradigm. If you insist on NT, then use Delphi, VB or some other client server tool. The reason I suggest this, not to bash NT, is that you have a shift in the model. NT does not handle telnetd well, nor does it handle other server issues well. I haven't seen an NT with 100 ttys connected to it. Have you? Web server? OK. DB server? OK? App server? forget it. Simpler and cheaper solutions exist. Again, let us look at what the original poster wanted to do. Port an application to a new platform. 4GL is not a good tool, for other than a reporting tool, since it does not fit the client/server model well. 4GL is mainly a server side tool. (Yes it does have remote connections, but it is not the point.) 4GL is a non GUI language. Else why did Informix create New Era? Think about it. If you port 4GL to NT, what will you have? An application which may work, but will not work well enough to keep the users happy. You also have techincal issues which have to be addressed. Again, round peg in a square hole. (It may fit but not well). IMHO as a consulting software engineer, I would still maintain that you would be better off doing the following: 1) Rewrite critical business logic in C 2) Write a separate but equal application using whatever tool you like in the PC world. As long as it can support C This will have the ultimate effect of reducing your maintennace cost in the long run. Which is what is the major cost in software. This allows you to place your core business logic on either the client, or the server, or even the database as a C-SPL (C used as the stored proceedure language.) As an added bonus, it allows you to rethink and revisit your initial design, and utlimately improve upon it. > Your whole argument is based on technology strengths and weaknesses. > When was the last time the market chose a product on technological > merit? Erm, I guess that would have been Windows, right? > Well, as an engineer, I look at all things considered. If I am forced to use NT, then I would chose a different tool than 4GL. If I can keep my UNIX, then 4GL may still be the best tool. > 4GL for NT makes perfect sense to the many small Informix developers who > have an existing app on SCO or some other low end UNIX platform, and > have customers *demanding* that the app be ported to NT. > Then re-write the app. If you don't believe me, then have a UNIX client and a bunch of PCs running telnet. That's essentially what you are asking. No one sees the server, so the users should not notice. Then ask them to fill out a survey on the app. You buy nothing in going to a PC other than it will now run their daily pc programs, so you don't need the TTY and PC cluttering their desk. Oh, they already run the 4gl app on their UNIX server. So why NT? Because of Cost? Hmmmm. Last time I checked, NT 5.0 is in beta and when it ships, a licensed version will cost around 1500 - 2K ($USD). Linus costs around $50.00 USD. From what people say, Linux outperforms NT. Infact you can use your old 486 PCs as servers. ;-) > These guys would love to move to more modern development tools, but > can't afford the time to re-skill all in one go; by the time they've got > a decent VC++ version of their app in the market, all their customers > will have migrated to a competitors package. > Sigh. Who said anything about Visual C++. (Oh yeah, your in the MicroSlop world. There are other RAD tools on the market. Chose VB, another MS product. Chose Delphi. (God knows how many other tools exist.) Infact why don't you chose Symantac's Visual Cafe Pro? $400.00 USD a copy, drag and drop, and you can build an applet fairly quickly. (Ahh but that's java and Mr. Bill hates java!) My point being, if you are going to enter the NT market, you need to use tools appropriate to that environment. 4GL doesn't fit cleanly to be effective. If you are going to live in a heterogenous OS world, you need to adapt to the realities. Your competition will and will have a better application to market and will crush you. Nobody is saying don't choose NT. Just chose the correct App tool for that environment. -Mikey -- #include <std_disclaimer.h> /* Mike Segel (MS385) */ #include <No_Spam.h> #ifdef OFFENDED_BY_CONTENT The author takes no responsibility for this post. Any resemblence to a coherent rational thought is purely coincidence. -The Management. #endif ***************************** Due to AGIS's Refusal to Act Responsibly We are blocking all of their domains at the packet level. 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